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We've all heard about it. The controller was as cool as a cucumber the whole time. His heart rate didn't even increase. And he remembered the first thing you learn in training:

Always ask yourself what your out is, and answer it: ATSAP!




Sarcasm of course.

I don't even know where to begin with this one. So I'll begin with, Are there just no Low Visibility Procedures there, or were they not followed?

Is it common to clear an aircraft to take off on a runway to which CAT III approaches are being made, when there is an aircraft on final, especially as close as 3nm?

That seems, to me, too close for comfort. I take it from the ATC recordings that the FedEx crew was a bit concerned about the clearance too.

ATC needs to be selling flowers on a corner of Hialeah, FL. Curious to read the OP's take on it.

I watched a different clip of this on youtube, not as detailed but still it`s clear just how close this was to a disaster.
Luckily the FedEx crew were paying attention, I find it shocking that the SW crew accepted the take-off clearance, knowing the was a 767 on a 3 mile final.
Better to be 5 mins late than die in a fireball.

3 miles ahead of a heavy category aircraft seems tight at the best of times, but especially when low vis is in effect with the inevitable impact on situational awareness.

One thing the video (with recordings) I saw didn't show was how busy or quiet the airport was - was this a case of pushing tin to avoid delays stacking up, and that being in the mind of the controller and SW pilots?

Interesting point made in the video, because this was an auto land due to fog, the SW B737 should not have even been at the 18L hold, as that is within the ILS beacon zone.

miamiair wrote:ATC needs to be selling flowers on a corner of Hialeah, FL. Curious to read the OP's take on it.

All of the controller's decisions were mind-boggling. Pushing the WN for no reason, sending it on a no-kidding 3-mile final in low RVR weather, the phraseology, the complete lack of care, sending the departure in a climb through the go-arounds altitude restriction, etc. Oh, and of course having no outs, relying on "they'll work it out themselves" separation standards (no SRS for this one, and obviously there was no 2 increasing to 3 sep in this situation)...the list goes on.

But he's still working from what I hear, and not only that, is still in training (downstairs) despite having numerous deals under his belt. Apparently he's been passed around the NAS due to claims of discrimination.

Really, the precipitating cause of this wasn't the controller, but the failure of our system to have administrative controls in place which prevent such people from becoming rating. This man does not have the set of tools needed to control in tower or tracon. There's a lot on the back-end these days which can lead to people who shouldn't be behind a mic managing to get rated. I've seen it before, including a woman who couldn't even memorize LOAs ending up as a supervisor following a number of deals on local.

On the other hand, I would not work somewhere that exceeded my ability level, even if I could get a shady sign-off during my trainer's RDOs. It's dangerous and unethical. I don't know how such people sleep at night, though I guess the nice paychecks help.

paul mcallister wrote: I find it shocking that the SW crew accepted the take-off clearance, knowing the was a 767 on a 3 mile final.
Better to be 5 mins late than die in a fireball.

That was my first thought when I saw this. And then he took his sweet time lining up and beginning the take off roll. If they weren't ready for an immediate and expedited departure they should have refused the clearance. I would think the WN chief pilot will be having a chat with him.

Lucas wrote: And he remembered the first thing you learn in training:

Always ask yourself what your out is, and answer it ATSAP!

Doubt that will work here. This was demonstrating pure negligence. That kind of rules out self reporting. Maybe the union can save him but the pressures on the FAA and this made national news. The controller probably ought to be investigating a career in the fast food industry.

I wonder, the METAR was reporting 1/4sm in fog. I wonder, was it just a ground fog? The tower cab sits pretty high at KAUS, were they above the layer? The lowest RVR was midpoint at 600m. That's better than a 1/4 mile. Doesn't excuse the controller but might be a mitigating factors.

DXing wrote:

Lucas wrote: And he remembered the first thing you learn in training:

Always ask yourself what your out is, and answer it ATSAP!

Doubt that will work here. This was demonstrating pure negligence. That kind of rules out self reporting. Maybe the union can save him but the pressures on the FAA and this made national news. The controller probably ought to be investigating a career in the fast food industry.

To be clear, that was a joke, and thus why I said "Sarcasm of course." We do not train to use ATSAPs as outs. But we apparently are letting dangerously deficient "controllers" get rated, which is a massive concern.

Allegedly he's not NATCA. Separation wise, he doesn't have any excuse that is remotely workable. RVR prohibited SRS. 3-9-6 a. “ …if you can determine distances by reference to suitable landmarks…

Radar was fracked too T5-8-4 TERMINAL. Except as provided in para 5-8-5, Departures and Arrivals on Parallel or Nonintersecting Diverging Runways, separate a departing aircraft from an arriving aircraft on final approach by a minimum of 2 miles if separation will increase to a minimum of 3 miles (5 miles when 40 miles or more from the antenna) within 1 minute after takeoff.

I don't think claiming discrimination will get him out of the mess this time.

paul mcallister wrote:Better to be 5 mins late than die in a fireball.

WN is always 5 min late . . . . if they get there at all these days.

miamiair wrote:ATC needs to be selling flowers on a corner of Hialeah, FL. Curious to read the OP's take on it.

Concur. Low vis ops and we're gonna land a heavy at the same time a 737 is departing. FFS, it's a WN 737, damn thing may not make the end of the runway. Bad call ATC.

Controller should be suspended at the least. WN Pilots - well I expect nothing better from them. FX pilots need a medal . . .