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This should be not as dramatic as it may sound at first, but it does (slightly) affect the usage of photos within the site, so we really would encourage photographers to read this, and give us your comments.

Nb: This is a suggested change of our Terms of Use. If and how we will really change them will depend on the responses in this thread.

§5 of our Terms of Use currently carries this paragraph:

You also grant netAirspace a limited license to modify your content, when needed. This includes measures like resizing photos, adding copyright bars and watermarks, and correcting or enhancing information. However, we will not modify your content for creative purposes.

Now, we are (or better: Ed is ) currently working on adding a few very basic games to the site. Nothing fancy, but nice and simple lunchbreak entertainment. Within these games, we plan to use photos from the photo database.

These games will be part of the site, so basically, that usage is covered by our Terms of Use.

However, think of a game like a sliding block puzzle, where a photo is chopped up into squares and jumbled up for the player to put it together again.

Some people might argue that this qualifies as a "modification for creative purposes".

Thus, we thought about changing the above quoted paragraph into this:

You also grant netAirspace a limited license to modify your content, when needed. This includes measures like resizing photos, adding copyright bars and watermarks, correcting or enhancing information, and usage within the games in our Fun section. Other than that, we will not modify your content for creative purposes.

This wording would be more specific, and offer more clarity.

Would you be comfortable with that change?

These games will not be made available outside our site (i.e. we won't sell licenses to sites like freebrowsergames.com, as that would indeed not be covered by our ToU).

Please let us have your feedback. The ToU change will not be implemented before we heard what you think about this.

Sounds great, have fun.

For my own sake, I have no concerns about this whatsoever. However, for those who might, is there any way we can add a checkbox or something to allow the photo owner to "opt out" of usage for purposes like games? Technically, I wouldn't think that would be much of a challenge for a genius of Shanwick's caliber.

I think we'd prefer a consensus to an opt-(in|out), if at all possible.

ShanwickOceanic wrote:I think we'd prefer a consensus to an opt-(in|out), if at all possible.

That's fine, just thought I'd throw that out there and see if it was a possibility.

I think the proposed changes are alright.

I see no problems with this, carry on!

There should probably some mention of the Tail ID quiz/game in the NAS Daily.

ShyFlyer wrote:There should probably some mention of the Tail ID quiz/game in the NAS Daily.

AFAIK, we don't use database shots for the Tail ID quiz yet. And if we one day do, we will have to ask the photographers for explicit consent, anyway. Just linking a shot from the db would make the quiz a tad too easy.

I agree with the proposed changes.


Cheers.

Sounds fun--don't see any downsides to it.

Zak wrote:

ShyFlyer wrote:There should probably some mention of the Tail ID quiz/game in the NAS Daily.

AFAIK, we don't use database shots for the Tail ID quiz yet. And if we one day do, we will have to ask the photographers for explicit consent, anyway. Just linking a shot from the db would make the quiz a tad too easy.

This set-up is a step in the right direction, and it's going to be fun messing with photos in the games section. One question, however, are you planning, sometime in the future, to do anything with our photos outside the fun section? If you do, I'd redo the language to something like this:

You also grant netAirspace a limited license to modify your content, when needed. This includes measures such as resizing photos, adding copyright bars and watermarks, correcting or enhancing information, usage within the games in our Fun section, and similarly related minor modifications. We will not modify your content for creative purposes by significantly changing any of the photographic elements. Significant changes include, but are not limited to, any changes in the following areas: changes in exposure, sharpness, contrast, saturation, cropping ratios, or similarly related substantial changes.

I have no problems with NAS using my photo for minor changes like games, and I think NAS should reserve the right to make similar future modifications. The last thing I think NAS wants to to keep changing the ToS to each and every good and minor modification, and I think that a broad minor modification agreement will suit you all better going forward. At the same time, drawing a line in the sand by stating what you will not do will also reduce ambiguity.

Supposing two shots are displayed overlapping - for example, in a user's photo album. Has the one underneath been "modified for creative purposes"?

ShanwickOceanic wrote:Supposing two shots are displayed overlapping - for example, in a user's photo album. Has the one underneath been "modified for creative purposes"?

I'm confused as to what you mean.

Imagine sticking photos into a paper album:

Code: Select all

+--------------+
|              |
|              |
|   Photo A    |
|       +--------------+
|       |              |
+-------|              |
        |   Photo B    |
        |              |
        |              |
        +--------------+


Has photo A been modified?

ShanwickOceanic wrote:Imagine sticking photos into a paper album:

Code: Select all

+--------------+
|              |
|              |
|   Photo A    |
|       +--------------+
|       |              |
+-------|              |
        |   Photo B    |
        |              |
        |              |
        +--------------+


Has photo A been modified?

In my mind photo A has not been modified in a significant manner. The reason why I say this is that the original link to photo A is probably still preserved, yes? So the image is still intact. Now, if you destroyed the original Photo A, that would be a significant modification, as the image is no longer intact.

I like the sliding block game idea. Sounds fun. Being able to overlap photos slightly in a photo album seems nice, but I am concerned that you could cover too much of a shot that it loses some of what made it great to begin with.