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Tanker Will Be a Boeing

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Boris (Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 21:30Post
Northrop Grumman pulls out of Air Force tanker bid

Northrop Grumman has decided not to bid on a contract to build the next generation of refueling tankers for the Air Force, a move that leaves Boeing as the sole competitor for the roughly $40 billion Pentagon deal, according to sources familiar with the company's plans.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers...
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 08 Mar 10, 21:31Post
Wow...

need KC-X RFP
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
Boris (Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 21:34Post
Here's a statement released by EADS:

"Five years ago EADS partnered with Northrop Grumman, as prime, to pursue the U.S. Air Force KC-135 modernization program. Two years ago our team was selected and awarded the contract. Today Northrop Grumman has decided not to submit a bid to the Department of Defense for the KC-X program.

"As a team, our serious concerns were expressed to the Department of Defense and the U.S. Air Force that the acquisition methodology outlined in the request for proposal (RFP) would heavily weigh the competition in favor of the smaller, less capable Boeing tanker. Northrop Grumman's analysis of the RFP reaffirmed those concerns and prompted the decision not to bid.

"The source selection methodology clearly signals a preference for a smaller aircraft. This is particularly disappointing given that the Air Force previously selected the A330-based KC-45 because of its added capability, lower risk and best value for both the warfighter and U.S. taxpayer. The Defense Department's RFP ignores the added combat capability that could be provided to our military and, for the first time, ensures that our allies will operate with superior capability in this vital mission area.

"The A330 multi-role tanker transport is the most capable, low risk tanker in the world today -- having been flown, tested and proven. The A330 MRTT has been selected over the Boeing tanker in the last five consecutive competitions and will shortly enter service with several U.S. allies.

"This decision does not diminish our commitment to the U.S., or to its service men and women. The enduring strength of our commitment is reflected in the success of the Army's Light Utility Helicopter -- of which we are prime contractor and that just celebrated its 100th on-schedule delivery. And it also can be seen in the many EADS systems and capabilities that operate with the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard.

"EADS is the largest international customer for U.S. aerospace and defense products, contributing over $11 billion dollars annually to the American economy and supporting more than 200,000 high technology jobs. We remain committed to our U.S. customers, suppliers and the American workforce.

"We express our appreciation to the states and communities in which we do business, and particularly to their elected officials who have been unwavering in their determination to provide the best available capability to the American warfighter.

"We also must acknowledge the support from the leadership of France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Spain in promoting transatlantic defense cooperation as a two-way street and the interoperability that the KC-45 would offer."


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/statem ... _news_stmp
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers...
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 22:23Post
Admittedly, I'm a homer, I want the tanker to be a Boeing, but having Northrop in the mix would've pushed Boeing, methinks, to make an even better tanker. {twocents}
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 22:29Post
Really now, can you blame them for taking their marbles and leaving the playground? The government did everything but tell them they weren't going to win no matter what the parameters of the RFP called for. I'm actually ashamed of our government for the way this whole tanker thing has played out.
Slider... <sniff, sniff>... you stink.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 22:34Post
Queso wrote:Really now, can you blame them for taking their marbles and leaving the playground? The government did everything but tell them they weren't going to win no matter what the parameters of the RFP called for. I'm actually ashamed of our government for the way this whole tanker thing has played out.


To an extent I agree, but I wish it had been competition between American companies without EADS involvement.
aloges (Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 22:39Post
Well played, Boeing lobbyists!
sosumi
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 22:40Post
Lucas wrote:
Queso wrote:Really now, can you blame them for taking their marbles and leaving the playground? The government did everything but tell them they weren't going to win no matter what the parameters of the RFP called for. I'm actually ashamed of our government for the way this whole tanker thing has played out.


To an extent I agree, but I wish it had been competition between American companies without EADS involvement.

Fine. But let's change the rules of procurement to reflect that requirement BEFORE the bidding is begun. You can't change the rules halfway through it just to disqualify a certain competitor that shows up.
Slider... <sniff, sniff>... you stink.
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 08 Mar 10, 22:49Post
Queso wrote:
Lucas wrote:
Queso wrote:Really now, can you blame them for taking their marbles and leaving the playground? The government did everything but tell them they weren't going to win no matter what the parameters of the RFP called for. I'm actually ashamed of our government for the way this whole tanker thing has played out.


To an extent I agree, but I wish it had been competition between American companies without EADS involvement.

Fine. But let's change the rules of procurement to reflect that requirement BEFORE the bidding is begun. You can't change the rules halfway through it just to disqualify a certain competitor that shows up.

Agreed. I'm not saying NG was wrong for leaving - from what I first heard of this way back, Boeing was looking to be on the short end of the bid as it was, but I think Boeing may have been pushed to come up with a better product had they not thrown their minds into winning through lobbying.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 08 Mar 10, 23:02Post
Interesting RFP Presentation with notes
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
NWA742 (Founding Member) 09 Mar 10, 01:09Post
aloges wrote:Well played, Boeing lobbyists!


Oh, there was much more at play than Boeing lobbyists.
Flying is real freedom.
AndesSMF (Founding Member) 09 Mar 10, 01:18Post
Is there not a requirement for certain amount of US product and work for military contracts? I still have to agree with Queso on this one, though I am not surprised.
Einstein said two things were infinite; the universe, and stupidity. He wasn't sure about the first, but he was certain about the second.
bhmbaglock 09 Mar 10, 03:02Post
NWA742 wrote:
aloges wrote:Well played, Boeing lobbyists!


Oh, there was much more at play than Boeing lobbyists.


Union lobbyists for one.
cornish (Certified Expert - Aviation Economics & Founding Member) 09 Mar 10, 07:15Post
Queso wrote:
Lucas wrote:
Queso wrote:Really now, can you blame them for taking their marbles and leaving the playground? The government did everything but tell them they weren't going to win no matter what the parameters of the RFP called for. I'm actually ashamed of our government for the way this whole tanker thing has played out.


To an extent I agree, but I wish it had been competition between American companies without EADS involvement.

Fine. But let's change the rules of procurement to reflect that requirement BEFORE the bidding is begun. You can't change the rules halfway through it just to disqualify a certain competitor that shows up.


Agree 100% with you on this one Queso. Not because I'm sour that EADS didn't win, but precisely for the reasons you say. As a company we've done the same before. Why spend a huge sum of money on a bid you know you're not going to win?

Lucas wrote:To an extent I agree, but I wish it had been competition between American companies without EADS involvement.


Um outside Boeing, how could you have a competition with other US companies UNLESS they teamed up with EADS? There's nobody else out there who could build something suitable, inside or outside the US.

AndesSMF wrote:Is there not a requirement for certain amount of US product and work for military contracts? I still have to agree with Queso on this one, though I am not surprised.


Well that will be a problem for the next generation after this one, as aside from the actual assembly the Boeing 787 and all Boeings going forwards have/will have a massive amount of non-US product.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 09 Mar 10, 08:33Post
Cornish,

That's my point, which many apparently didn't understand. I suppose that the subtlety of nostalgia is easily missed if not more explicitly worded.
cornish (Certified Expert - Aviation Economics & Founding Member) 09 Mar 10, 09:22Post
Lucas wrote:Cornish,

That's my point, which many apparently didn't understand. I suppose that the subtlety of nostalgia is easily missed if not more explicitly worded.


To subtle for my tired brain in the heat of Abu Dhabi :)

But yes i do indeed see your point ! We could say the same in the UK.....
 

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