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People who are believers in Christ rely on passages such as Hebrews 11 for help in understanding -

- "through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God" (a description of Christ Himself). It goes on "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear".

- Hebrews 11:6 offers great insight as to why faith is necessary to believe that God created everything and why it's necessary to have it in order to gain insight into His ways - "But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him". He rewards those who seek Him by letting them know Him (and His ways) - "And ye shall seek Me and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart" Jeremiah 29:13. He further qualifies it with "I love them that love Me; and those that seek Me early shall find Me" Proverbs 8:17.

ShanwickOceanic wrote:Of course, where God/nothing got that energy from is another question...

Redbull.

I'm with PA110 on this one. I appreciate that my faithlessness may be dismissed as a typical symptom of British cynicism, but I just don't see how, or why, any supreme being would create a universe as their plaything - surely such human desires to control demonstrate less than supreme, and ultimately human, flaws? The whole concept of religion relies on control and dictation of thoughts and feelings, which is far too human a trait to ever appear in any supreme being.

Religion has always been too convenient for me. When things go well, it's all God's glorious work, but when they go wrong, God left us to it and we have failed him. When life is confusing, God moves in mysterious ways . I guess you could say that it's not that I don't believe in God, more that I have experienced enough to satisfy my very curious mind that there simply cannot be a supreme being to whom we all belong.

As for the question of where did it all start, who knows. Maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't. I, for one, have far more important issues to worry about

JLAmber wrote:I'm with PA110 on this one. I appreciate that my faithlessness may be dismissed as a typical symptom of British cynicism, but I just don't see how, or why, any supreme being would create a universe as their plaything - surely such human desires to control demonstrate less than supreme, and ultimately human, flaws? The whole concept of religion relies on control and dictation of thoughts and feelings, which is far too human a trait to ever appear in any supreme being.

Religion has always been too convenient for me. When things go well, it's all God's glorious work, but when they go wrong, God left us to it and we have failed him. When life is confusing, God moves in mysterious ways . I guess you could say that it's not that I don't believe in God, more that I have experienced enough to satisfy my very curious mind that there simply cannot be a supreme being to whom we all belong.

As for the question of where did it all start, who knows. Maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't. I, for one, have far more important issues to worry about

I'd go along with you JL and PA on this as well.

I guess i got all cynical at a young age. One of my best friends as a kid was the son of the local vicar. He turned out to be schizophrenic and started beating his wife and the three children. Despite his very loyal wife's appeals to the church heirarchy for help, their attitude was "God will provide." Well he didn't unfortunately and ultimately his wife took my friend and his brother and sister into hiding as it got so bad. I guess at a young impressionable age it formed my opinions early as to why no god would allow something like that to happen.

Ironically, my closest friend in the world has found god later in life, having been a real hellraiser in earlier years. He has changed so much, I was best man at his wedding and the other week I was present at Winchester Cathedral for his ordination as a priest into the Church of England. He knows my feelings on the subject and I know his, but we have a healthy respect for each others views and think no less of the other for our outlook.

I have a lot of respect for clergymen because of the general support and help many of them provide for the community. After all, religious views aside, a good deed is a good deed.

When I used to spend most of my time in Spain I became acquainted with the local Anglican Vicar who was taking a sabbatical in the Balearics. He was a great guy and against all the bickering and back biting of a ex-pat church community did a great job, the congregation was one of the most 'clicky' I've ever seen and TBH really didn't deserve such a nice leader, so it was wonderful Karma when he left and was replaced by an iffy Glaswegian whose daughter was a pole dancer Part of the reason we got on so well was that his regular 'job' in the church was as a missionary in Russia and Siberia, so when it came to Russian types you name it, he'd flown on it half a dozen times or more - even all the helicopters and government/military transport aircraft into remote regions. It was almost enough to make me want to be religious