ShanwickOceanic wrote:I think a group of organisms (I hesitate to say, 'society') can withstand a small proportion of people acting entirely in self-interest. Someone I know used to "go do a bookie's" (commit armed robbery) whenever he was bored and felt like earning a quick ten grand, just because he could, and he had plenty of associates like him - yet the world didn't come crashing down. These were very nasty people who carried weapons and were not afraid to kill (Edit: in the pursuit of their self-interest). If we
all act like that, then there's going to be a killing spree, and unless you're damned certain that you'll come out on top the only other outcome is your death. Which is hardly in your self-interest. On the other hand, performing seemingly selfless (and hence irrational) acts helps keep the whole thing together. It means I don't have to grow my own crops and defend them from marauding bastards like me, and it means I don't have to risk my life doing it. Ultimately, personal sacrifice to keep "society" together is a rational act of self-interest.
Does that make any sense at all?
Lucas wrote:From a standpoint that does not acknowledge any deity, I am interested in your views on why one would ever break the rationality of "rational egoism" and its fundamental concepts. From that said standpoint, the worst consequence that a human can arguably experience by miscalculation is merely a reduction of one's existing time frame.
Interesting choice of words, 'merely'. It could be argued that, without an afterlife or a reincarnation to fall back on and staring into oblivion, reducing/ending one's time here is catastrophic - whereas for the believer, it's merely a hiccup along the way, and indeed could even be something to seek out (see "Suicide bomber"). Ouch, now we're off-topic!
Hmm, good answers, thank you very much. This is another thing that will really give you a headache, isn't it? But you've narrowed it down to the core...it's rational to do as much for oneself while creating a stable environment to live in.
That also means that, as long as you limit the activities, it's logically possible to perform a lot of transient acts deemed "against societal norms/mores" as long as it doesn't shift the balance outside of a stable zone. Really, murdering or raping some poor person in Mexico while you're on vacation isn't going to have much of an effect as long as one can get away with it, and if it benefits monetarily or creates pleasurable, there is no reason not to do it. And it's not like you can't do it, because most of the world never thinks about the points of egoism, and another portion of the world is superstitious and believes in something after our sodium-potassium pumps expire along with the rest of our biomass. In fact, nothing is "wrong," but merely (There's that word again!) capable of shortening one's already very short time of existence. Every organism is bound to the same fate sooner or later. Given my age and habits, lacking predation or accident, I statistically have a greater time until I meet said fate, as compared to many people on this site. If I can calculate correctly, I can maximize my current opportunities at the cost of the resources around me, and, honestly, humans and other animals are little more than resources.
Anyway, it is interesting to at least consider. If I did not believe what I do, this site and my communications with the people on it are merely an outlet to fulfill my human needs of inquisitiveness. Likewise, I would feel no more sadness at any person's passing than at the passing of my dog, which, though it brought me amusement, was simply a calculated balance: it fulfilled a function by keeping down pests while also doing things my brain thought were "funny" (As they were unexpected and new-if they happened routinely, they would not be nearly so interesting.), but it also took up my limited time and cost money. In truth, my friends are much the same, though more intelligent by far.
Also, anything that occurs to future generations is entirely meaningless to me.
Creative use of resources, and the balancing of an equation.
Once one has considered this-and I consider it the basis for most everything-it is possible to move on to other topics, such as integrity versus despair.
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Now, to separate that bunch from the other side, thank you for answering.
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter I presented, and, while the topic is a bit disconcerting, we're lucky enough that we do have many avenues of discussion thanks to our higher intelligence.
Dave, maybe Hal9000 had it right.
Or maybe the cold and rain has addled my brain.
EDIT: 9000, not 900.
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