You are at netAirspace : Forum : Air and Space Forums : Civil Aviation

VS7, LHR-LAX, Aug 24th...what happened here?

All about Airlines and Airliners.
 

IFEMaster (Project Dark Overlord & Founding Member) 27 Aug 21, 15:23Post
My curiosity is piqued and I think this is worthy of some sleuthing. Or at least someone with greater technical know-how than I to lend some possible explanations...

On Tuesday of this week I was aboard Virgin Atlantic's LHR-LAX service. About 90 minutes in to the flight we turned around and headed back to Heathrow.

After the turn-around, the captain informed us that there was "a technical issue that is preventing us from crossing the Atlantic". He explained that maintenance staff would meet the aircraft and attempt to resolve the issue, and he did not expect us to need to deplane.

However, upon landing, I was watching through the front-facing camera. As soon as we pulled up to the gate, bags began offloading and we were told to grab our carry-ons and immediately disembark. Two things of note:

- The aircraft was met by the police. Not Heathrow police. London Metropolitan Police. I counted three officers standing at the door when I stepped off.

- There was no maintenance personnel to be seen, either on the ground as far as I could see, or on the aircraft/at the door.

We were escorted to another gate, where another A350 was waiting, and after about an hour or so, we boarded that replacement aircraft. Same crew. Same FAs. One significant thing to note:

- Upon closing the doors of the original aircraft before take-off, the flight attendant had announced the number of people onboard: 172 passengers, 9 flight attendants, and 3 crew (I've heard this before on Virgin Atlantic; must be part of their SOPs?). BUT, when we boarded the replacement aircraft and doors were closed, that passenger count was 170 passengers, not 172 passengers.

We departed again normally with about a 4 hour delay.

So here's where my curiosity piques:

- Was this really a "technical" turn back? If so, what technical issues might prevent a plane from crossing an ocean (both engines were running, flight was proceeding normally as far as I could tell)? Radar? GPS? Radio? I'm stuck to think of something that would mean the aircraft could get as far as it did, and turn all the way back to Heathrow, that would apply only to oceanic crossing

- If not technical...the police presence and the 2 "missing" passengers on the replacement flight...could we have been dealing with someone(s) and/or something(s) on that original plane that shouldn't have been? No-fly list? Known suspect for something?

In short...what the heck happened here?

Image
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
DXing 27 Aug 21, 17:29Post
IFEMaster wrote:Was this really a "technical" turn back? If so, what technical issues might prevent a plane from crossing an ocean (both engines were running, flight was proceeding normally as far as I could tell)? Radar? GPS? Radio? I'm stuck to think of something that would mean the aircraft could get as far as it did, and turn all the way back to Heathrow, that would apply only to oceanic crossing


Any number of tech items could have caused the turn around. You're absolutely right about the radar. GPS is important but you can continue on without it. It would probably mean a reroute if there were multiple tracks but a flight like that is usually random route. Communications, satcom goes down and 1 of the HF radios is on the blink. Satcom going down could also affect CPDLC which is required in the north atlantic. You could drop down below the required level but the fuel burn would go up consequently. Loss of ice protection. Summer or winter makes no difference, as a dispatcher I would be extremely leery of sending an aircraft on a long haul flight from LHR to LAX with a known ice protection deficiency. ETOPS has a number of requirements before entry and on an LHR t LAX flight ETOPS extends beyond feet dry on the other side depending on how far north you are. Could have been a generator problem or a hydraulic one. Lots of stuff can throw a monkey wrench into ETOPS flights. It's a real credit to MX that it was pretty rare to get the call from an airborne flight that something was amiss and they needed to talk to MX and could I stay on the line as a go-no go decision would be needed on entering ETOPS. If MX decided in the intervening time between turning around and landing that the fix would take longer than swapping, especially given the crew duty time involved on a long flight like that, OPS would not hesitate.

As to the two missing passengers, I'm surprised that it was only 2. Usually something like that spooks more than just 2. Also, their connection may have been blown and the airline had developed another route for them to get where they wanted to go without as much delay.

As to the police, probably just routine. In this day and age of passengers acting out it's probably become SOP to have LEO's on scene to hopefully quell anyone with bright ideas from acting up. Why it would be one police agency over another I can't speak too.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
IFEMaster (Project Dark Overlord & Founding Member) 27 Aug 21, 18:27Post
DXing wrote:Any number of tech items could have caused the turn around.


Super useful info, thanks so much!
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 28 Aug 21, 03:13Post
Since you report not seeing any maintenance personnel around the aircraft, and the flight being met by Police, I'd say that there were passengers who technically shouldn't have been allowed to board the flight.
Make Orwell fiction again.
DXing 28 Aug 21, 10:57Post
Mmmm...MX not being at the gate on a flight that OPS had already decided to swap (bags immediately being downloaded upon arrival) is not that unusual. No rush to fix it at that point. Once the bags were downloaded, catering removed, and cleaners done doing a cursory cleaning, they could have hooked it to a tug and taken it to the hangar to free up the gate.

If it was a passenger(s) that wasn't supposed to be on board, better to board the plane and go right to their seat and escort them off the plane than take a chance on missing them or having one bolt at the jetway door.

Just my thoughts. At least they didn't make them put their hands in the air like that silly AA flight a few months ago.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
JLAmber (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 30 Aug 21, 22:42Post
Person with knowledge of UK policing raises hand:

IFEMaster wrote:The aircraft was met by the police. Not Heathrow police. London Metropolitan Police. I counted three officers standing at the door when I stepped off.


There were 2 persons of very significant interest onboard the original flight. Those Met officers were little more than placeholders. There was a team of 8-10 specially trained officers directly beneath your aircraft, I'm guessing you parked somewhere non-standard? The fact that you didn't divert to STN suggests the 2 were knowledgeable individuals and you may well be one very lucky person.

Reminds me, I need to post a thread about the goings-on in the NW UK.
A million great ideas...
IFEMaster (Project Dark Overlord & Founding Member) 01 Sep 21, 21:20Post
JLAmber wrote:There were 2 persons of very significant interest onboard the original flight. Those Met officers were little more than placeholders. There was a team of 8-10 specially trained officers directly beneath your aircraft, I'm guessing you parked somewhere non-standard? The fact that you didn't divert to STN suggests the 2 were knowledgeable individuals and you may well be one very lucky person.

Reminds me, I need to post a thread about the goings-on in the NW UK.


{bugeye} {bugeye} {bugeye}

I want to hear more...

We parked at the same gate we departed from a few hours earlier.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
paul mcallister 03 Sep 21, 16:15Post
That`s a very strange on indeed. I worked as a dispatcher at EGAA for 5 years or more and I can honestly say, that any one of that very significant interest would not be permitted to board any aircraft, unless it was not noticed until after departure, which was perhaps the case here.

Sending uniform officers onto an aircraft is always a risk as well, as the person of interest may have a device on board (on their person, or in hold luggage) and could detonate it if challenged.

We did get a few tip offs from Special Branch when I worked at EGAA, but only one was terrorist related, the rest were all to do with smuggling ciggies and other herbal related items.
 

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

LEFT

RIGHT
CONTENT