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Boeing Suspends 737 MAX Production

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Zak (netAirspace FAA) 16 Dec 19, 23:11Post
Boeing is temporarily halting production of its grounded 737 Max after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said last week it would not approve the plane’s return to service before 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... uction-faa

Earlier reports today suggested they would further decrease production numbers, but now Boeing confirmed they will suspend the production entirely in January.
Yes, the new EU copyright directive is that stupid.
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 17 Dec 19, 10:31Post
Not much choice once you've filled the employee car parks... {boxed}
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
vikkyvik 17 Dec 19, 14:34Post
ShanwickOceanic wrote:Not much choice once you've filled the employee car parks...


Ha!

Lucky for us, we don't make any 737MAX parts in our facility, but there are plenty of others that do, so it'll be interesting to see how this affects my company and the hundreds of other suppliers.

According to Boeing, they're not laying off any workers....yet.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 17 Dec 19, 16:27Post
It is pretty nifty to see the opposite of an aircraft boneyard. Possibly a once-in-a-lifetime event.

Image

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Image

Image
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 17 Dec 19, 17:08Post
vikkyvik wrote:it'll be interesting to see how this affects my company and the hundreds of other suppliers.

One UK supplier seems to reckon they'll do all right, while the industry body thinks the sky is falling harder than a MAX:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50820483

Lucas wrote:Image

I assume that's the Naughty Corner at VCV. It was an impressive sight even from the ground.
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 17 Dec 19, 17:16Post
ShanwickOceanic wrote:I assume that's the Naughty Corner at VCV. It was an impressive sight even from the ground.


Hahaha, yes, it's where you send the planes when they're in time out. :P Does make for cool pics.
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 17 Dec 19, 18:49Post
So now the great question in aviation circles is what happens first: the return of the 737MAX to service, or BER opens? {boxed} {mischief}
The Original Peruvian Outlaw ©
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 17 Dec 19, 19:33Post
ShyFlyer wrote:So now the great question in aviation circles is what happens first: the return of the 737MAX to service, or BER opens? {boxed} {mischief}


I actually did LOL.

My conspiracy theory is that this is Boeing's way of using financial pressure to keep the FAA and others from dragging their feet for show.
captoveur 23 Dec 19, 14:12Post
It is kind of amazing to drive by Kelly AFB and see the rows and rows of 737 tails. I have heard we have about 50 parked here, and the drive by on the highway confirms that.

I have seen a few up. They are either new ones being ferried in, or Boeing is doing some certification work here in San Antonio. They never show up on the trackers.
I like my coffee how I like my women: Black, bitter, and preferably fair trade.
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 23 Dec 19, 14:29Post
Boeing has announced that its chief executive, Dennis Muilenburg, is stepping down.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50893490
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 23 Dec 19, 14:59Post
ShanwickOceanic wrote:
Boeing has announced that its chief executive, Dennis Muilenburg, is stepping down.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50893490


Making an already safe company safer. {duck}

I guess I'm not too surprised, although they were talking about how important continuity was, and thus how important keeping him around was, just recently, IIRC.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 23 Dec 19, 16:50Post
All the hardware and software work is done. Tested. Backwards. Forwards. Everyone of the alphabets have given it a green light. It is a matter of re-certification. When the AD comes out, it should be a fairly quick process to get them flying.

Keep one thing in mind, the root cause of this wasn't the MCAS, it was a defective AoA sensor, which one was repaired incorrectly, and the other that wasn't calibrated. The failure of which, compounded low-time flight crews deficiencies in handling the emergency.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
JLAmber (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 24 Dec 19, 22:55Post
miamiair wrote:It is a matter of re-certification.


Technically it's a matter of first certification as Boeing were originally allowed to self-certify (what a great idea that turned out to be) and are only now subject to the proper checks.
A million great ideas...
IFEMaster (Project Dark Overlord & Founding Member) 06 Jan 20, 19:55Post
miamiair wrote:Keep one thing in mind, the root cause of this wasn't the MCAS, it was a defective AoA sensor, which one was repaired incorrectly, and the other that wasn't calibrated. The failure of which, compounded low-time flight crews deficiencies in handling the emergency.


I'm being somewhat pedantic here, but the failure of a single sensor shouldn't bring down an aircraft. That the architects of the MCAS software didn't have measures of redundancy in their code, secondary logic verification, logarithmic back-off procedure calls, etc., in this very event, is as much a root cause of this as the AoA sensor failure itself. The sensor, as far as the software is concerned, is merely a data source, and relying on a single sensor as a data source is just negligent. Even my home PC has redundant sensors. A multi-million dollar piece of hardware shouldn't be architecturally inferior to something that costs a couple of thousand dollars and is used mainly to play Overwatch.

A common misconception amongst programmers and non-programmers alike is the idea that a computer will only do what your code tells it to do. I've been in the business long enough to know that that is egregiously naive, and the negligence in both architecture, development, quality assurance, and peer review is astounding. This is entry-level stuff, and such amateurish mistakes just can not be made when you're dealing with automating hardware that literally kills people if it fails.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 07 Jan 20, 11:32Post
There was a time there was an AD for the A330/A340 AoA vanes, and the pitot tubes. AF447 comes to mind. AF447 also illustrates the essential need to be able to fly the airplane. Seat of your pants fly the airplane. None of this 400 AGL engage LNAV pooh. You're also omitting in the factor of maintenance. The Lion Air didn't fix the problem, they pencil whipped it. Couple that with the low proficiency crew, the holes line up to give you a catastrophic event.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 07 Jan 20, 19:15Post
Looks like all Max pilots will now need sim training, which might cost Boeing a lot more money:

In the tests, which were part of the work involved in evaluating the software update, many of the pilots did not use the correct procedures to handle emergencies, instead relying on their flying skills.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/business/boeing-737-max-simulator-training.html
IFEMaster (Project Dark Overlord & Founding Member) 08 Jan 20, 17:49Post
Lucas wrote:Looks like all Max pilots will now need sim training, which might cost Boeing a lot more money


Training a human to do a complex and technical job before they're allowed to do the complex and technical job? What a novel idea.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 10 Jan 20, 15:57Post
"This airplane is designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51058929
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 10 Jan 20, 16:07Post
ShanwickOceanic wrote:
"This airplane is designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51058929


Boeing is approaching the news as being an issue of having employees who are cancerous. They really haven't been very polished in any of their responses. Some more quotes from employees whose visions do not align with the values that the company holds dear:

"I still haven't been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year," one employee says in 2018, referring to an exchange of information with the FAA.

"Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn't," says one employee to another, who responds, "No."


Also, reading through the docs, there's a lot of message traffic that's just a bad look for Boeing. For example,

Person A
I just jedi mind tricked this fools.
I should be given $1000 every time I take one of these calls.
I save this cpmpany a sick amount of $$$$

B
what did you convince them of?

A
to simply produce an email from me to the DGCA that states all the airlines and regulators that accept only the MAX CBT
to make them feel stupid about trying to require any additional training requirements
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 10 Jan 20, 16:44Post
"Amazing what a brown envelope can achieve... FAA were neither thorough nor demanding...".
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 11 Jan 20, 17:51Post
Spirit Aerosystems laying off 2800 workers, some 15% of its workforce:

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3531005-s ... -workforce
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 14 Jan 20, 16:00Post
Boeing Mocked Lion Air Calls for More 737 Max Training Before Crash - Bloomberg

Now friggin Lion Air might need a sim to fly the MAX, and maybe because of their own stupidity. I’m scrambling trying to figure out how to unscrew this now! idiots

How deep does this turd mine go...
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 14 Jan 20, 16:58Post
ShanwickOceanic wrote:Boeing Mocked Lion Air Calls for More 737 Max Training Before Crash - Bloomberg

Now friggin Lion Air might need a sim to fly the MAX, and maybe because of their own stupidity. I’m scrambling trying to figure out how to unscrew this now! idiots

How deep does this turd mine go...



I don't want to be vindictive (I've thought for a long time that Boeing was really bungling this), so my bias here is showing, but this really does not help the "third world pilots" narrative, which certainly has some truth behind it as far as the Swiss Cheese model is concerned. I guess...third world pilots and their airlines are easily Jedi mind-tricked?

Edit: The emails have provided me with some levity in writing stupid, satirical articles in my free time:

BOEING CLARIFIES: 737 MAX WAS DESIGNED BY MONKEYS, WHO WERE SUPERVISED BY CLOWNS

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JLAmber (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 14 Jan 20, 22:08Post
ShanwickOceanic wrote:Spirit Aerosystems laying off 2800 workers, some 15% of its workforce:

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3531005-s ... -workforce


Spirit Aerosystems who just happen to be making huge investments in an effort to become a tier-1 supplier to Airbus. There are going to be an awful lot of trust issues with the big suppliers, not to mention a massive capacity shortfall, when all of this finally gets sorted.
A million great ideas...
vikkyvik 16 Jan 20, 15:50Post
JLAmber wrote:Spirit Aerosystems who just happen to be making huge investments in an effort to become a tier-1 supplier to Airbus.


As well they should. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, as they say.
 

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