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The argument is really about purchase planning, not performance differences (except... concerning the economics of operating them), as they are meant to complement each other (I think I saw that in the second video)

Why the US Air Force Is Buying New F-15EX Fighter…:

Substantial difference in operating costs






I think I started watching this one, but it's a different comparison

In my view the F-35 is just a load of compremises that has ended up not actually being very good.
For a start it`s too small, the internal weapons bay means it has rather limited range-therefore it will need tanker support.
The F-35 may be stealthy, but the enemy can just look for the tanker.

Also I think the F-35 is pig ugly, overly complex, and very expensive to purchase and operate.
Not that I am in the market for an Air Force-lol.

The USAF still needs a bomb truck.. or missile truck for some of the more advanced features of the F-35.

The F-35 has some great features, but those features rapidly become pointless past about day 3 of the war when air superiority has been gained. There's no reason to be stealth once the enemy air defenses are suppressed- or when you have weapons with enough stand off range that you aren't worried.

This is why the F-15 and F-16 will remain in production for several years, and active service for decades.

captoveur wrote:The USAF still needs a bomb truck.. or missile truck for some of the more advanced features of the F-35.

The F-35 has some great features, but those features rapidly become pointless past about day 3 of the war when air superiority has been gained. There's no reason to be stealth once the enemy air defenses are suppressed- or when you have weapons with enough stand off range that you aren't worried.

This is why the F-15 and F-16 will remain in production for several years, and active service for decades.

That's if you are flying against a tier 2 opponent. If you are flying against a tier 1 opponent, someone who has stealth aircraft as well as highly advanced SAM's, day 2 or 3 might not be enough to get you complete air superiority. I agree the 15 and 16 will be needed for quite a few years to come, just as the B52 remains operational even though the B1 and B2 can truck conventional ordnance just as nicely. In Operation Desert Storm it took a dozen aircraft to do the same thing one F117 could do when it came to SAM suppression. Same idea for the F35. Yep, they cost a bunch more, but when you add up how many sorties and possible losses you would have with 4th generation versus 5th...it equals out pretty quickly.

paul mcallister wrote:In my view the F-35 is just a load of compremises that has ended up not actually being very good.
For a start it`s too small, the internal weapons bay means it has rather limited range-therefore it will need tanker support.
The F-35 may be stealthy, but the enemy can just look for the tanker.

Also I think the F-35 is pig ugly, overly complex, and very expensive to purchase and operate.
Not that I am in the market for an Air Force-lol.

Name a currently operating fighter/bomber jet that doesn't need tanker support unless it wants to leave payload behind on the ramp to go any sort of distance. The idea is that you don't need as many aircraft or weapons to do the job with the F35 as you would need with the F15 or 16.

The F-15C/D model Aircraft are used primarily used for defense of the US interest in the United States. They are based at Guard Units at Klamath Falls and Portland Oregon, Fresno Ca, New Orleans La, Jacksonville and Homestead Fl and at Westfield MA and are all part of the Aerospace Control Alert (ACA) mission which provides armed fighters ready to scramble in a
moment's notice to protect the Country from any airborne threat.

They are also used as combat air patrol (CAP) fighters, usually for presidential protection

There is no way an F-35 could be compared to an F-15EX in that mission role in US. The F-15EX, is much faster, larger payload, longer range and better loitering capabilities than the F-35. The right decision would be to replace present F-15C/D models with the awesome F-15EX which has even more capabilities than a Strike Eagle. The F-15EX also has two seats but can be flown by a lone pilot or the second pilot could become a WSO. These are my opinions and presently the 104th FW at Westfield Ma will be making the announcement on the F-35A or the F-15EX.

Hat tip to captoveur - "missile truck"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f-15e ... li=BBnb7Kz

captoveur wrote:The USAF still needs a bomb truck.. or missile truck for some of the more advanced features of the F-35.

The F-35 has some great features, but those features rapidly become pointless past about day 3 of the war when air superiority has been gained. There's no reason to be stealth once the enemy air defenses are suppressed- or when you have weapons with enough stand off range that you aren't worried.

This is why the F-15 and F-16 will remain in production for several years, and active service for decades.

This. The F-35 has a valuable place in the Air Force's arsenal, but it can't be the only arrow in their quiver.

DXing wrote:
That's if you are flying against a tier 2 opponent. If you are flying against a tier 1 opponent, someone who has stealth aircraft as well as highly advanced SAM's, day 2 or 3 might not be enough to get you complete air superiority. I agree the 15 and 16 will be needed for quite a few years to come, just as the B52 remains operational even though the B1 and B2 can truck conventional ordnance just as nicely. In Operation Desert Storm it took a dozen aircraft to do the same thing one F117 could do when it came to SAM suppression. Same idea for the F35. Yep, they cost a bunch more, but when you add up how many sorties and possible losses you would have with 4th generation versus 5th...it equals out pretty quickly.

The Russians are a paper tiger, the Chinese aren't much better. We need to be more prepared to deal with a wall of Mig-21s coming at us than an interwoven, layered network of S-400s staffed with competent operators.

Completely unrelated: F15s are just so much cooler looking.

captoveur wrote:The Russians are a paper tiger, the Chinese aren't much better. We need to be more prepared to deal with a wall of Mig-21s coming at us than an interwoven, layered network of S-400s staffed with competent operators.

The Russians are "now" a paper tiger. However, their engineering, especially when it comes to SAMS is nothing to sneeze at. The Chinese aren't the best engineers, but they can build by the box lot. The two have signed a number of diplomatic agreements and their militaries are cooperating. If the Russians give license to the Chinese to build the S-400 then all bets are off. The North Vietnamese weren't the most adept SAM operators and yet they managed to bring down 92 U.S. aircraft. Stalin's quote of "Quantity has a quality all its own." best fits the Chinese situation.

Reading a story about the F35, found a little food for thought

https://news.yahoo.com/ongoing-headache ... 00456.html

Particularly troubling was a November 2022 GAO study that analyzed readiness of 49 US military aircraft models between 2011 and 2021.

"Only four aircraft types, none of which were fixed-wing fighter aircraft, met their annual mission capable goals in a majority of those years," the watchdog warned.

So 45 out 49 models of military aircraft didn't meet mission capable goals in five or fewer years out of nearly the past ten. Were they off a little, some or a lot? And where did the F35 fit in there...

From the story, bold and italics are mine....

Michael Peck is a defense writer whose work has appeared in Forbes, Defense News, Foreign Policy magazine, and other publications. He holds a master's in political science

There was one other previous attempt to produce a plane that all three services could wrap their pilots in. It's got off to a bad start too. But in the end became one of the iconic warbirds of the cold war....

2C%20the%20F-4%E2%80%99s%20problems%20began%20to%20recede.%20Air-to-air,do%20with%20external%20gun%20pods%20that%20vibrated%20excessively." class="postlink">https://warisboring.com/the-f-4-is-a-great-fighter-with-a-bad-reputation/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20F-4%E2%80%99s%20problems%20began%20to%20recede.%20Air-to-air,do%20with%20external%20gun%20pods%20that%20vibrated%20excessively.

I'm pretty sure the F35 won't be as iconic as that but I also have no doubt that considering the technology, it's going to be just fine.

Ward Carroll's take on the EX-