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Everyone who's spent any time in Canada knows Tim Horton's. They sell coffee and they're everywhere. But they are owned by a US company. That's about to change.

http://www.ottawasun.com/money/2009/06/29/9970356.html

The popular coffee house chain is currently owned by a U.S.-based parent company after its spinoff from U.S.-based burger giant Wendy’s in 2007.

Tims says the reorganization will save money due to Canada’s lower tax rates and make international expansion easier.

This is nuts. Canada, the land of universal health care and sky-high taxes is more business friendly than the USA...

Cap in trade, you will see a lot of this start to happen. I know of 2 very large businesses that are going to phase out US operations and move most of their production over seas. Thousands of Ohio jobs will be lost in just these two alone.


Thanks Obama

I'm expecting oil companies to go off-shore. [no pun intended]

It's absolutely amazing how many of the threads go off-topic with political commentary lately.

Mark wrote:It's absolutely amazing how many of the threads go off-topic with political commentary lately.

You'll have to catch me up here, I'm a bit slow... How exactly is political commentary "off topic" in a thread about industry leaving the nation because of excessive taxation? Taxation is a function of government right? Ergo... political discusison?

Or am I missing something?

Mark wrote:It's absolutely amazing how many of the threads go off-topic with political commentary lately.

I started the thread and your comment is the only one I see that's off-topic...

Mark wrote:It's absolutely amazing how many of the threads go off-topic with political commentary lately.

You think it's amazing now - you should have seen forums back when Bush was in office.

Airfoilsguy wrote:Cap in trade, you will see a lot of this start to happen. I know of 2 very large businesses that are going to phase out US operations and move most of their production over seas. Thousands of Ohio jobs will be lost in just these two alone.

The worst part is that these politicians actually expect and realize that more manufacturing jobs will disappear. They think that a new wave of 'green jobs' will replace them...

Oh, and Hungary joins the group of countries cutting taxes.

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNew ... 6720090629

I am still trying to figure out what the hell a "green" job is.

Did any stop to think since the corporate headquarters was in Ontario already, perhaps the tax savings might have just been not having to pay taxes to both countries and had nothing to do with the tax rates.

captoveur wrote:I am still trying to figure out what the hell a "green" job is.

Any job in Berkeley or Davis.

captoveur wrote:I am still trying to figure out what the hell a "green" job is.

A green job is a job you do that doesn't necessarily get paid and benefits no one. It Is a job that you can use to pick up the bubble headed vegan that never had to work for her money because daddy gave her all she has.

BlueLion wrote:Did any stop to think since the corporate headquarters was in Ontario already, perhaps the tax savings might have just been not having to pay taxes to both countries and had nothing to do with the tax rates.

Only you... everyone else says it's the tax rates...

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/06/ ... 96809.html

It will also be able to take advantage of lower Canadian tax rates starting the year after the potential reorganization.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... q7nxU_bwOs

The coffee and doughnut seller began looking at moving its registration in the fourth quarter of 2008 as a way to cut its tax rate.

http://www.canada.com/Hortons+fold+busi ... story.html

The company has filed a notice with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission stating that it wants to reorganize itself as a "Canadian public company" in order to take advantage of decreasing Canadian corporate tax rates

Face it, lower taxes and business will come; raise taxes and business will leave...

It's really pretty simple...

From KPMG
Canada's general corporate tax rate of 33.5 percent for 2008, which includes federal and provincial tax, compares favourably with the US corporate rate of 40 percent, but is still higher than the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and European Union (EU) averages.
Okay why didn't they move sooner?
Lowest average corporate tax rates are still found in the EU, where the average rate has fallen by 1 percent since 2007, to stand at 23.2 percent.
If taxes were the sole reason, why not move to the EU?
"Corporate income tax rates are important, but they are only one factor in comparing country-to-country tax burdens," said Wiebe. "You also have to consider sales tax, property tax, capital tax and other local business taxes,
Ontario sales tax is 13%, property tax accounts for 10% of all taxes in Canada, so I sticking to my concept that Horton is using the corporate tax rate (15% in 2012) played a part, but the real reason is to return to it's roots.

The one benefit that has helped the US is FLEXIBILITY.

The labor markets in Europe and in many other places is simply not flexible.

AFAIK, Canada does not quite share the same issues with labor as Europe does.

But every little bit helps.

While taxes may not have been the only reason, it didn't help either.

And as I have stated many times before, why can't officials figure out how to get more $$ from increased productivity as opposed to finding creating ways to extract more $$ from a shrinking pool?

AndesSMF wrote:While taxes may not have been the only reason, it didn't help either.

And as I have stated many times before, why can't officials figure out how to get more $$ from increased productivity as opposed to finding creating ways to extract more $$ from a shrinking pool?

Excellent comments, but what happens when our economy becomes dominated by businesses (mostly financial institutions) that have grown so big, that they don't have to play by the rules. For instance the United States has a 40% corporate tax rate, but how many large corporations actually paid any taxes. Anyone know the tax bills for the last several years for lets say Citibank, Wal-Mart, Allstate Insurance?

If the loopholes weren't what they are/were, then perhaps these companies would have already relocated to other places.

And since no one can give the answer of how much is enough taxes, that part becomes very difficult to discuss.

Though I will remind you of this:

Often, big companies are made up of a large amount of tiny, little shareholders than are just like you and me.