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Introducing Our Membership Model

The place for site-related announcements and member feedback.
 

graphic 04 Jun 12, 02:15Post
ANCFlyer wrote:Boards of Directors at any corporation don't do that. They make a decision based upon what is best for the company, and then they take the feedback from the sharerholders in said company. Some is good, some is bad. Can't make 100% of the shareholders happy 100% of the time.

The Founders Forum here is essentially "the Board of Directors" for NAS, with Vic, Ed, Zac, all acting as CEO, CFO, COO, et al. We - the collective Founders are given 100% access to the actions being taken as to the direction of this site. And there is a LOT of discussion.


And nobody said the idea I've proposed would make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, but it would give you guys an idea of what your customers think, before you act. Think of it as going outside drunk and figuring out which direction the wind is a-blowin BEFORE you drop trou. ;)
Zak (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 07:11Post
graphic wrote:See above, weight your decisions 50/50 or 40/60 or whatever you want to do, between your elite founding whatever you want to call them and the product survey. Every elite founding whatever gets a "voting share" and the total of their votes adds up to 50% or 40% or 60% of your decision-making, and then the product surveys fill in the rest. That way we have these threads during the "idea" phase, not during the "this is what we've done, tell us what you think" phase.

Oh yes, that sounds a lot easier than our current approach. Oh, wait - it doesn't. ;)

Seriously, if we would introduce complex voting procedures before every decision, we would still operate a naked forum in a corner of my private shared hosting account.

Also, I am still missing the answer to my question what exactly you would have expected us to put up in that survey.

If I am right in assuming that it would have come down to whether we may introduce a business model that may allow the site to break even at some point, or whether we are supposed to keep funding it out of our own pockets (Founders' pockets included), then I can tell you that the second option is no option.

As for the extra work you assume we have invested in fine-tuning the product based on the feedback we received here: so far, it adds up to approx. 10 minutes. Meaning I have spent much more time replying to this thread (about which I'm not complaining, just saying it), than making the actual adjustments. In addition, we will adjust the priorities of the upcoming task, seeing that we can implement a solution for photographers to earn free memberships earlier than we had planned. Not really extra work, just a shift in priorities.

graphic wrote:And nobody said the idea I've proposed would make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, but it would give you guys an idea of what your customers think, before you act.

Actually, no. Because the only people we would have asked in this case are our existing members. Who are pretty much unaffected by the model, as they will be grandfathered anyway. So the actual customers are future members. Who would, naturally, not have participated in the survey.

"Market research" rather often comes down to people who don't know what they want asking people who don't know what it's all about to tell them what to do.

In addition, we have to take our manpower into consideration. I'm sure a lengthy evaluation process would have come up with a ton of great ideas. But that would still have left us short of developers who could then bring them to life.

All that doesn't mean we won't listen to feedback. We did that in the past, we will do it in the future. We will do our utmost to keep all decisions transparent, but I'm afraid we cannot make them all subject to intensive advance surveys.

Allstarflyer wrote:-Raise Lifetime Membership to $699.00 - assuming, for example, someone is a member for twenty years, that still beats the current first class model for pricing.

-Raise monthly membership for Business and First by $2 and $5 respectively.

-Raise annual membership for Business and First by $10 each.

-Raise the number of photo uploads per week for business to 30.

-Raise the number of photo uploads per week for economy to 20, raise the price for an economy email address to $29.99, give the economy users intellitext and other ads, and raise the economy yearly membership to $9.99 after the first three months.

Tempting as that may be, but as mr chips wrote, we also have to keep our competitors in mind. As well as the fact that we are still much smaller than the established sites.

And as long as I have a say in this project, there will be no IntelliTXT ads. Not even if a survey revealed that the majority of our members would prefer them. ;)
Ideology: The mistaken belief that your beliefs are neither beliefs nor mistaken.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 10:57Post
As stated in several posts, this has been discussed with the Founding members every step of the way. We originally provided the vision we had, and they chose to back the endeavor.

Tweaking can be done here if and there if needed, but wholesale change isn't going to happen.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
halls120 (Plank Owner) 04 Jun 12, 11:23Post
miamiair wrote:As stated in several posts, this has been discussed with the Founding members every step of the way. We originally provided the vision we had, and they chose to back the endeavor.

Tweaking can be done here if and there if needed, but wholesale change isn't going to happen.


We did indeed, and there was a lot of discussion on how to structure the membership levels.

For those that still aren't convinced that we're on the right track, I'd note that the site's leadership is very open minded and won't hesitate to make changes if the facts warrant a change.
At home in the PNW and loving it
ORFflyer (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 13:24Post
halls120 wrote:
miamiair wrote:As stated in several posts, this has been discussed with the Founding members every step of the way. We originally provided the vision we had, and they chose to back the endeavor.

Tweaking can be done here if and there if needed, but wholesale change isn't going to happen.


We did indeed, and there was a lot of discussion on how to structure the membership levels.

For those that still aren't convinced that we're on the right track, I'd note that the site's leadership is very open minded and won't hesitate to make changes if the facts warrant a change.

{check} {check} And I think excellent decisions have come from all that discussion. We have some serious minded folks working behind the scenes here at NAS, and doing a damn good job if you ask me. I don't recall any major changes to the site simply being "pushed" out on the membership without discussion.
Rack-em'. I'm getting a beer.
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 13:35Post
Apparently, the current model isn't connecting completely with everyone - my suggestions are to the benefit of NAS (as in mo' money for the site).

Zak mentioned wanting to stay competitive with other sites - w/the pricing examples I gave, NAS would stay below (at least what I remember there about First Class) monthly and annual price models.

Better to introduce higher pricing now than later, and at the same time, the increased pricing altogether helps address the impact of not having photographers potentially not paying up to become members. In other words, increased pricing for us who participate in the forums could allow for increased numbers of photos allowed for economy members. If that equates to wholesale change that isn't desired, ok - I'm just trying to help find a happy medium.
Zak (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 14:00Post
Allstarflyer wrote:Better to introduce higher pricing now than later

I agree that a price increase later on would probably be difficult to establish. That is also the reason why we wanted to implement the membership model now - the longer we would have waited, the more difficult it would have become.

It is true that our prices are well below those of our competitors. But we are also still a much smaller site. While I hope that our product is on par (if not better) than those of our competitors, especially in terms of usability, there is no denying that e.g. our photo views are still way behind.

Plus, the common concern here (that I actually share) is what impact the introduction of membership fees will have on potential new members, and if they may keep people from signing up with us.

I hope that the current prices are well-balanced, but indeed, at least some guesswork and gut feeling was involved in finding them. :)

Allstarflyer wrote:and at the same time, the increased pricing altogether helps address the impact of not having photographers potentially not paying up to become members. In other words, increased pricing for us who participate in the forums could allow for increased numbers of photos allowed for economy members. If that equates to wholesale change that isn't desired, ok - I'm just trying to help find a happy medium.

Actually, our idea is to also give non-photographers a chance to earn free memberships. After all, netAirspace is supposed to be more than just a spotting website.

But the concept behind that will not be so easy to implement, and I guess it will take another few months before we can think about adding it. There just is too much essential stuff on the to-do list that needs to be addressed first.

As the potential impact of membership fees on photographers may be an immediate issue, we will see if we can push the reward feature for photogs earlier. But that does not mean that we will forget non-photographer members. :)
Ideology: The mistaken belief that your beliefs are neither beliefs nor mistaken.
Zak (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 14:18Post
ANCFlyer wrote:Can't make 100% of the shareholders happy 100% of the time.

Looks like it...

Could Be Great, Management falls flat - for netairspace.com

The website was born out of the management's frustration with other websites that provide essentially the same service. In my opinion, the base product the website offers goes beyond their competitors, unfortunately the people running the website do not manage the website effectively, and because of this, the site experience that could be an excellent site experience falls flat, the website gets the job done for what it needs to do, but it's nothing to write home about, or to advertise, as I used to tell my friends to visit and join the community, but i don't anymore.

Likes

Active community
Easy to navigate
Good content
Site is fast and responsive

Dislikes

Poor customer support

3 of 5 stars, I would not recommend this site to a friend.

http://www.alexa.com/profile/u/aHR0cDov ... Y1NTAwMDEy
Ideology: The mistaken belief that your beliefs are neither beliefs nor mistaken.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 14:26Post
Let's get a monkey survey to see if customer service is poor or not.

Seriously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But at least be truthful.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
Click Click D'oh (Photo Quality Screener & Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 14:47Post
Zak wrote:http://www.alexa.com/profile/u/aHR0cDovL2ZhY2Vib29rLmFsZXhhLmNvbS9%2BLzY1NTAwMDEy


Lol, our resident CSM(ret) is one of the top search returns for the site. {mischief}
We sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf
Boris (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 14:48Post
Saying there is "poor customer service" is an outright lie.

This is a website, not a five star restaurant. Rating customer service implies that the rating party is a customer, which implies that the customer has not received what he has paid for.

When you haven't spent ten cents, you aren't a customer. That's okay, because after all, it is the internet where you can visit all kinds of sites and pay nothing. But when you pay nothing, you've got no business complaining...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers...
GQfluffy (Database Editor & Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 14:52Post
Rather pathetic if you ask me.
Teller of no, fixer of everything, friend of the unimportant and all around good guy; the CAD Monkey
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 14:56Post
If you cannot recommend a site to a friend, why give it 3 out of 5 stars?
Make Orwell fiction again.
AndesSMF (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 15:53Post
Zak wrote:
ANCFlyer wrote:Can't make 100% of the shareholders happy 100% of the time.

Looks like it...

Could Be Great, Management falls flat - for netairspace.com

The website was born out of the management's frustration with other websites that provide essentially the same service. In my opinion, the base product the website offers goes beyond their competitors, unfortunately the people running the website do not manage the website effectively, and because of this, the site experience that could be an excellent site experience falls flat, the website gets the job done for what it needs to do, but it's nothing to write home about, or to advertise, as I used to tell my friends to visit and join the community, but i don't anymore.

Likes

Active community
Easy to navigate
Good content
Site is fast and responsive

Dislikes

Poor customer support

3 of 5 stars, I would not recommend this site to a friend.

http://www.alexa.com/profile/u/aHR0cDov ... Y1NTAwMDEy

Isn't this forum open to everyone? Just sayin'... {boxed}
Einstein said two things were infinite; the universe, and stupidity. He wasn't sure about the first, but he was certain about the second.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 15:55Post
AndesSMF wrote:Isn't this forum open to everyone? Just sayin'... {boxed}


It is, and there is nothing to hide.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
AndesSMF (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 15:57Post
miamiair wrote:It is, and there is nothing to hide.

I know that...but what stops people from other sites from posting their reviews...
Einstein said two things were infinite; the universe, and stupidity. He wasn't sure about the first, but he was certain about the second.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 16:02Post
AndesSMF wrote:
miamiair wrote:It is, and there is nothing to hide.

I know that...but what stops people from other sites from posting their reviews...


Nothing, absolutely nothing.
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
AndesSMF (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 16:29Post
miamiair wrote:Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Exactly. Just that we shouldn't assume that anyone from NAS would have posted that review.
Einstein said two things were infinite; the universe, and stupidity. He wasn't sure about the first, but he was certain about the second.
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 04 Jun 12, 16:32Post
AndesSMF wrote:
miamiair wrote:Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Exactly. Just that we shouldn't assume that anyone from NAS would have posted that review.


Did you click the link? Notice a name in the upper left hand corner?
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
AndesSMF (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 16:35Post
miamiair wrote:Did you click the link? Notice a name in the upper left hand corner?

{facepalm} {facepalm} {facepalm}
Einstein said two things were infinite; the universe, and stupidity. He wasn't sure about the first, but he was certain about the second.
ORFflyer (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 16:38Post
miamiair wrote:
AndesSMF wrote:
miamiair wrote:It is, and there is nothing to hide.

I know that...but what stops people from other sites from posting their reviews...


Nothing, absolutely nothing.

{check} {check} But at least be truthful. What Eric posted looks like something Nik, Falcon or Ted would have posted. It is a simple tactic for him to try and get his way.

Notwithstanding what Boris accurately posted about customer service - I'd really like to hear what prompted him to write that. It certainly can't be the membership model thread, and what he posted there - that was flat out wrong, and he was called out on it. So he goes and posts a flat out lie about the Admins here at NAS. That's like taking his ball and going home because he didn't get to bat first.
{twocents}
Rack-em'. I'm getting a beer.
halls120 (Plank Owner) 04 Jun 12, 16:47Post
Zak wrote:
Could Be Great, Management falls flat - for netairspace.com

The website was born out of the management's frustration with other websites that provide essentially the same service. In my opinion, the base product the website offers goes beyond their competitors, unfortunately the people running the website do not manage the website effectively, and because of this, the site experience that could be an excellent site experience falls flat, the website gets the job done for what it needs to do, but it's nothing to write home about, or to advertise, as I used to tell my friends to visit and join the community, but i don't anymore.

Likes

Active community
Easy to navigate
Good content
Site is fast and responsive

Dislikes

Poor customer support

3 of 5 stars, I would not recommend this site to a friend.

http://www.alexa.com/profile/u/aHR0cDov ... Y1NTAwMDEy


Soumds like someone has some sand in an uncomfortable place.
At home in the PNW and loving it
graphic 04 Jun 12, 18:22Post
Folks I believe this is where you and me part ways. I tried to put my honest opinion in the review from what I have seen and experienced on this site, apparently that means I have sand in my ladyparts.
ORFflyer (Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 18:27Post
graphic wrote:Folks I believe this is where you and me part ways. I tried to put my honest opinion in the review from what I have seen and experienced on this site, apparently that means I have sand in my ladyparts.

The way I see it - you had four things you liked, and one you didn't. And the one you didn't seemed to be iffy at best. Regardless, I don't see how a 4 to 1 ratio comes up to 3 out of 5 stars, and a swipe at our admins.

So in light of that, yes, I think you are in need of a douching.

{twocents}
Rack-em'. I'm getting a beer.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 04 Jun 12, 18:37Post
This is just a reminder that none of us are minors anymore. Anger is a secondary emotion, and expressing it may scratch an itch, but is isn't going to cure any other symptoms, much less the underlying morbidity. :)

So if we could use this thread for rational, edifying discussion, we'd be doing ourselves a huge service.

We're a small community. Each of us is a big part of it.

:)
 

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