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After reading another thread deeming the termination of the F-22 in favor of the F-35, I am curious as to what the 22 has over the f-35 outside the pure gunfight arena. Obviously a 22 will smoke a 35 in a turn contest 7 ways to Sunday and out speed it, but what weapons systems differentiate the two? My understanding was that the 35 had "360" look shoot kill integration with the helmet that was lacking in the F-22. But what missile systems are different? I agree with the PREMISE that when it come to 'true' air superiority the f-22 was built to kick ass in the air, but is the f-35 so grossly incapable when compared to the 22?

I don't think anyone is going to get a crystal clear picture of the F-35s shortcomings and strengths until an operational squadron is fielded.

I still say in a recession we should be building more airplanes, not less.

captoveur wrote:I don't think anyone is going to get a crystal clear picture of the F-35s shortcomings and strengths until an operational squadron is fielded.

I agree the view isn't perfect right now, but isn't there an 'on paper' comparison? I mean if there are missile systems proprietary to the F-22 that are superior and there is no way for the F-35 to close the gap, that would be a concern for me. I just want to know.


I'm not going to comment on the correctness of continuing the f-22 program for the sake of the economy, that's a political discussion best left to places on this board I dare not venture. Politics aside I LIKE the idea of more F-22's, but that's just selfish airshow hubris.

LPNTed wrote:

captoveur wrote:I don't think anyone is going to get a crystal clear picture of the F-35s shortcomings and strengths until an operational squadron is fielded.

I agree the view isn't perfect right now, but isn't there an 'on paper' comparison? I mean if there are missile systems proprietary to the F-22 that are superior and there is no way for the F-35 to close the gap, that would be a concern for me. I just want to know.


I'm not going to comment on the correctness of continuing the f-22 program for the sake of the economy, that's a political discussion best left to places on this board I dare not venture. Politics aside I LIKE the idea of more F-22's, but that's just selfish airshow hubris.

An AMRAAM is an AMRAAM.. and a Sidewinder is a Sidewinder.. The F-22 can also apparently carry a JDAM too.. All of which can be carried by the JSF. I doubt the F-22 was built with a nuclear delivery capability.. I am sure in some dark corner of the JSF's capabilities it's in there- The F-15 and F-16 both had a provision for nuclear free-fall bombs at one point and probably still do so I can't see giving up what is probably not a big deal to install.

Even with the airshow thing aside.. We are probably going to be stuck with the F-22 for at least 20 years, there WILL be losses in accidents. These are very complex fighters that are going to be flown within an inch of their capabilities regularly.. I would not call it unreasonable to predict the accident loss rate will compare with an F-15. I don't have the statistics on how many F-15s have been lost in accidents but I bet over the last almost 30 years its been quite a few.

And who in the world isn't an ally, possibly has a competent air force, and will want to fight a war of attrition? North Korea and China comes to mind... Also, history has indicated the F-22s excellent BVR capability will be wasted. We will almost certainly require visual identification of targets in these wars so being able to ripple 6 AMRAAMS at a flight of Mig knockoffs at long range is pretty worthless. Still, I say build them, 5-6 more squadrons. It's just money (at least that seems to be the current attitude in congress), and once the line gets shut down we might not be able to buy anymore.

Is the F-15 and F-16 still very capable in a war? Yep.. But so is an F-4 and those were replaced early too.. I can't see us going into a war with a competent adversary right now with reduced Air Force we have, and the new, neutered Navy carrier air wing.

captoveur wrote:.

Interesting observations, thank you.