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Chinese Balloons Over The Americas

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Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 04 Feb 23, 14:51Post
One flying over the central US now, another spotted over Latin America and (if Twitter is to be believed - user @MMtTreasures) maybe a third was over the northern US within the past day.

Odd stuff, maybe it'll miss me. {duck}
DXing 04 Feb 23, 19:56Post
BOOM! So much for that. The talking heads evidently missed the fact that the intelligence package broke free and dropped like a stone. Won't be much left after it hits the water.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
JLAmber (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 06 Feb 23, 20:22Post
DXing wrote:BOOM! So much for that. The talking heads evidently missed the fact that the intelligence package broke free and dropped like a stone. Won't be much left after it hits the water.


The question is, was it recording or transmitting?

Meanwhile another balloon has appeared over South America, meaning it's the highest thing in South America since one of Pablo Escobar's hippos ate something it shouldn't have.
The Chinese say some unexpected winds have blown the balloons off course, which could be plausible at those altitudes. Maybe.
A million great ideas...
DXing 08 Feb 23, 17:33Post
According to details emerging, if you can believe them, U2's were circling the balloon providing some sort of jamming to disallow the balloon's recon package from transmitting back to China. I would think it would have been using a burst transmitter of some sort, how do you jam that?

Also emerging is that it is possible other balloons have traversed part of the United States and other countries in the past few years. If so, how is it they escaped detection via radar or other means? One of the biggest worries would be the fear that the package, instead of a reconnaissance package, would be an EMP weapon slung underneath the balloon. That could cause massive damage, beyond what almost any other strike weapon could. The worst thing is this type of weapon is well within the technological reach of rouge countries like NK or Iran.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
DXing 10 Feb 23, 20:35Post
So now a 2nd high altitude object has penetrated the Alaska Air Defense Zone. It was watched overnight by fighter jets and shot down several hours ago on the eastern edge of the State.

Watching the press briefing, the one star they have out there is just about useless. Has said he can't comment more times than I can count. If he wasn't saying that he was referring the reporter to everyone and anyone else but him to include the PRC. When asked if the pilots reported what they saw, or its shape, he said it was unclear. Really? Can they tell the F-----g difference between a fighter jet, UAV, balloon, or an intercontinental bomber????? Press briefings from just about any sector of the government are useless anymore.

Me thinks the North Koreans are getting in on the action now.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
captoveur 10 Feb 23, 22:01Post
This is doing a lot to confirm my concerns that post cold war, NORAD just isn't what it used to be.
I like my coffee how I like my women: Black, bitter, and preferably fair trade.
DXing 11 Feb 23, 14:41Post
The excuse that the DOD and the administration are giving, that it was interfering with civilian air traffic is pretty lame. NOTAMS are issued all the time for balloons, drones, military activity to be avoided at all sorts of altitudes.

If you really want to push it, if the previous balloon had suffered a catastrophic failure, it would have endangered anything below it, so why not shoot it down over an unpopulated area to reduce the chance of damage?
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
DXing 11 Feb 23, 23:10Post
And now a 3rd one has been shot down over the Canadian Yukon territory. It seems as if someone is testing what our detection capability is. I still think this is more a test of what sort of payload they could sneak in undetected and then figure out what weapon would be the most devastating for that size payload.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 12 Feb 23, 02:01Post
DXing wrote:It seems as if someone is testing what our detection capability is.

China. Best case scenario is that they are screwing with us, sort of like a "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" children do to each other to cause annoyance.

Worst case is...
DXing wrote:a test of what sort of payload they could sneak in undetected and then figure out what weapon would be the most devastating for that size payload.


In the remake of the movie Red Dawn, the Chinese North Koreans take out portions of the power grid with an EMP prior to their invasion of the PNW.

Personally, I think it's most likely China saber-rattling, but they are very carefully watching and learning.
Make Orwell fiction again.
DXing 12 Feb 23, 11:54Post
I hate to sound conspiratorial, but the sad truth is that there are large parts of the world that still know how to live without full time electrical power. I wonder if we are? Could the average 20, or up to 60-year-old, know how to live without electrical power? It's a real threat. Not nearly as physically destructive as other types of WMD's, but just as deadly. That's why I think they should shoot these things down while still over the Pacific.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Raybin 12 Feb 23, 14:44Post
The question is: where are these balloons coming from (geographically) and where are they launched?
If they can be spotted over deserted areas in Alaska and the Yukon then they should be seen on the way if they come directly from China, North Korea or Russia.
Will these things, especially the last two, be launched in the Americas?
The purpose is purely a matter of conjecture. Here in Germany there are quite a few who even suspect the Americans are behind it.
Just as Bush used the non-existent weapons of mass destruction as a reason for the Iraq war, these balloons could also be used to justify an action.
As always with political things, we will probably never know the full truth.
In my personal opinion, the Russians are behind it. To distract from their actions and create tension elsewhere in the world. Then the Americans have to deal with it and then neglect Ukraine, which in turn benefits the Russians.
Be human, stay human
When flying, the dangerous thing is the earth (Wilbur Wright)
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 12 Feb 23, 15:41Post
DXing wrote:...there are large parts of the world that still know how to live without full time electrical power. I wonder if we are?

I think it would depend on the location, time of year, and length of outage. Generally speaking, an area without power for more than a few days, especially if the response to the outage seems chaotic, will start to devolve into anarchy.
Make Orwell fiction again.
paul mcallister 12 Feb 23, 16:32Post
I think the Russians are most likely behind this, partially to deflect what`s happening in Ukraine, and partially to ramp up world tensions.
I don`t believe the west can`t trace where this things are coming from, and I suspect they are being used to check NORAD reaction times.
If not the Russians, it must be China or North Korea, it`s rather like a James Bond novel from the 1960`s.
You have to wonder, is this really a new thing, or has it been going on for years ?
Raybin 12 Feb 23, 16:50Post
Well, well....
Just read our local newssite rtl.lu and discovered this:

Traduced from luxemburgish ( my language)
Quote:

The state-run Chinese media reported a flying object, which cannot be identified.

In front of the Chinese east coast, not far from the city of Rizhao, the unknown flying object was discovered. Otherwise details are not mentioned.

The authorities would now take preparations to shoot him down, it continues.

This incident is very reminiscent of the 3 unidentified flying objects that were shot down by the US military. China was partly made responsible for this by the United States
End quote
Be human, stay human
When flying, the dangerous thing is the earth (Wilbur Wright)
DXing 12 Feb 23, 17:42Post
Raybin wrote: Here in Germany there are quite a few who even suspect the Americans are behind it.


Well there is the fact that published reports state that some of the parts have english writing on them! ;) :))

ShyFlyer wrote: Generally speaking, an area without power for more than a few days, especially if the response to the outage seems chaotic, will start to devolve into anarchy.


New Orleans post Katrina...even though everyone knew the flood waters would recede and power would be restored, looting began pretty quickly. If it became known that the power was out for any kind of foreseeable future, anarchy would quickly take over.

Raybin...I wouldn't expect the Chinese to do anything less. Off the east coast near Rizhao...Along the northeastern coast, then it's already heading away from them.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 12 Feb 23, 22:08Post
Something was taken down over Lake Huron today

https://news.yahoo.com/unidentified-obj ... 59530.html
DXing 13 Feb 23, 01:21Post
I love how they have changed terminology...first it was "brought down"...now it is "decommissioned"! LOL

Rep. Jack Bergman, R-Mich., confirmed that the "U.S. military has decommissioned another ‘object’ over Lake Huron."


https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-shoots-down-unidentified-flying-object-great-lakes-region
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 13 Feb 23, 02:32Post
Wife and I grew up without water, electricity, or telephone service. We'd be fine murdering some prize bison after all the government pinecone pigs scurry off. :P

I have no concern whatsoever about these balloons/objects.
captoveur 13 Feb 23, 16:59Post
I wish we would stop using a $400,000 AIM-9X that we probably dont have many of in inventory on $500 balloons.

I wish we would stop dropping them in the water. There are plenty of almost completely unpopulated areas these are flying over.

I wish there was more transparency about what these are. The lack of any information is why we are getting conspiracy theories. Are these bioweapon containers? I dont know. The government isn't saying a damn thing. It is prudent to assume the worst in the absence of information. I cant trust anything on the news because they just spitball ideas from "sources" which history has taught me are just rectal extractions from the newsroom. Can FBI or someone put out something about what these are?

I have serious doubts we have meaningful defenses anymore.. in 1980 something coming over the northern border would have had F-106s on it so fast. Now, things seem to just penetrate our airspace freely. Safe to assume bombers or missiles coming at us are going to get through without issue. I have been watching the Rivet Joints, Combat Sent, and Cobra Ball studying these things on the flight trackers until someone got smart and started blocking them from Flight Aware, but id much rather study the balloon packages on the ground.
I like my coffee how I like my women: Black, bitter, and preferably fair trade.
DXing 13 Feb 23, 18:40Post
If I ever run into John Kirby, one of the WH spokesperson's, I'll be hard pressed not to ask "How'd it feel to be the Biden administrations 'Baghdad Bob'? Today's briefing was just another snow job.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 15 Feb 23, 18:28Post
ANCFlyer (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 16 Feb 23, 12:34Post
captoveur wrote:I wish we would stop using a $400,000 AIM-9X that we probably dont have many of in inventory on $500 balloons.


Yeah, but a couple of cannon rounds don't give some F22 Jock arrogant Air Force Pilot a chubby at 45,000AGL when it pulls the trigger.

That said, here's my take. Shoot 'em down. Don't give Hoot who owns them. Russian, Chinese, Venus, (or crapshow news weather balloon invading commercial airspace) don't care. If you're invading (and thats what it is, invading) US air space, without a plan or PP, the you get shot DOWN! Piss on you.

Sovereign airspace, like sovereign seas . . . defend it, protect it. Shoot it down, sink it, blow it up, no craps given here.

Don't like it, call me Mom. Tell her I said something you don't like, you're response will be . . . . well, don't piss him off.


Oh, and good morning from Central Florida. ;)
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!!
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 16 Feb 23, 15:30Post
As for the guns vs missile question, CW Lemoine talks about that in this video:



A Louisiana native, Lemoine is a graduate of the A.B. Freeman School of Business at Tulane University in New Orleans. After graduating college, Lemoine joined the Air Force Reserve where he flew the F-16 and accumulated one thousand hours including a combat tour in Iraq.

Lemoine later transferred to the Navy Reserve where he flew F/A-18A+ Hornets for four years. In 2018, he transferred back to the Air Force Reserve where he flew the T-38A as an Adversary Air Pilot for four years. He currently flies for a legacy U.S. airline
Make Orwell fiction again.
ShyFlyer (Founding Member) 16 Feb 23, 22:45Post
The other balloons could have a rather simple explanation...and innocuous use:

A small, globe-trotting balloon declared “missing in action” by an Illinois-based hobbyist club on Feb. 15 has emerged as a candidate to explain one of the three mystery objects shot down by four heat-seeking missiles launched by U.S. Air Force fighters since Feb. 10.

The club—the Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade (NIBBB)—is not pointing fingers yet.

But the circumstantial evidence is at least intriguing. The club’s silver-coated, party-style, “pico balloon” reported its last position on Feb. 10 at 38,910 ft. off the west coast of Alaska, and a popular forecasting tool—the HYSPLIT model provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)—projected the cylindrically shaped object would be floating high over the central part of the Yukon Territory on Feb. 11. That is the same day a Lockheed Martin F-22 shot down an unidentified object of a similar description and altitude in the same general area.


https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... gIU8WJW0vc



I have mixed feelings about these. As a HAM, I think these things are pretty cool. As a pilot...though the chances are slim...they aren't going to be very fun to suck into a jet engine.
Make Orwell fiction again.
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 17 Feb 23, 01:08Post
More about Shy's finding -

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illinois-hob ... saf-report

The outlet noted that the shape, altitudes, and payloads of small pico balloons matched the descriptions of all three unidentified objects shot down between Feb. 10 and Feb. 12.


So, stomping grounds over different periods to various NASers (Pep, DXing and myself) could have been a flashpoint for WWIII. {crazy}



Thought I'd always love Illinois. I don't miss it.
 

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