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First Here To Use The Word "Bitcoin".

Everything that would not belong anywhere else.
 

Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 17 Dec 20, 17:19Post
Who's laughing now? :))

Bitcoin.PNG
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It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 18 Dec 20, 20:25Post
Johan or somebody at Anet got irritated when I revived the oldest thread in Site-Related (about 10+ years at that time) asking who Tarq was/is (I still don't know or can't remember). It was after that they started locking older threads. :))

Looks like Queso is taking a stroll down NAS memory lane with some of these older threads resurfacing, something I might like to do again (if they could be reopened, ahem :) ) - not always the worst thing to see how things were seen (especially about politics).
Allstarflyer (Database Editor & Founding Member) 18 Dec 20, 20:34Post
And not to get too much like Peter Schiff, but I have a mindset similar to mhodgson and Tornado82 (if they haven't changed their minds since then). It has too much a Lucy pulling the football from Charlie Brown kind of feeling to it.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 18 Dec 20, 23:18Post
I now regret not being in bitcoin.

And I want to quickly get good at 3d printing.
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 19 Dec 20, 13:29Post
Imma 3D print me some bitcoin!
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
For it is the number of a man; and its number is One hundred threescore and twelve.
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 21 Dec 20, 18:09Post
Allstarflyer wrote:Johan or somebody at Anet got irritated when I revived the oldest thread in Site-Related (about 10+ years at that time) asking who Tarq was/is (I still don't know or can't remember). It was after that they started locking older threads. :))

Looks like Queso is taking a stroll down NAS memory lane with some of these older threads resurfacing, something I might like to do again (if they could be reopened, ahem :) ) - not always the worst thing to see how things were seen (especially about politics).

As slow as the forums have been, I don't think it's a bad thing to revive conversations that have been archived. Just PM "Global moderators" (you'll find them under "Groups" in the PM screen) with a link to the thread you'd like unlocked and we'll happily help you with that!
It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 08 Feb 21, 19:50Post
Tesla announced they picked up $1,500,000,000 in Bitcoin, and they would soon start accepting Bitcoin as payment for some of their products. There was a corresponding increase in Bitcoin price this morning, which I very much enjoyed.

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Look back at this thread. Cryptocurrency is not going away, my friends. You'll either start investing in it and using it for purchases and payments sooner or later. The value of $1.00 (and most other fiat currencies) is a tiny fraction of what it has been historically, and it will continue to decline, even accelerating the decline as other digital currencies supplant it.

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Someday in the future, the value of one dollar will be measured using Bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency as a standard, not the other way around. Elon Musk might be many things, but a fool when it comes to money is not one of them. There's a good reason he put 10% of his company's cash assets into Bitcoin.
It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
DXing 09 Feb 21, 18:49Post
The only problem I see with it is that it is not backed by a nation state. Therefore any nation state could make its use illegal, or tax the hell out of any purchase made using it. Already there have been grumblings about regulatory action in a number of countries so while its future may someday be bright, right now it's still as volatile as a WW1 munition found in a French farmers field.

That being said, I remember hearing a news story about bit coin back in 2012 and thinking it might be a good investment. The broker I was dealing with back then talked me out of it saying it was a flash in the pan and I'd just be throwing my money away. Given what I was willing to invest at the time, I would be worth over a $100 million at todays prices. Needless to say I didn't invest, and that broker and I have since parted ways.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 10 Feb 21, 14:16Post
DXing wrote:The only problem I see with it is that it is not backed by a nation state. Therefore any nation state could make its use illegal, or tax the hell out of any purchase made using it.

Ever traded (bartered) for anything? Did you tell the government about that transaction, or give them their "cut" of it? ;)

Those dollars you have in your pocket and in your bank account, they don't belong to you. You're only borrowing them for your use, and you don't even set the value for them, the government does that. So the real beauty of using an alternate form of currency is you and the party you are doing business with can agree on the value of whatever that form of currency is, and make your transaction, whether it be an old tiller, a rifle, or digital currency. At this point, only if you want to share a cut of it with somebody else (your wife, your boss, homeless people, the government) do they ever even need to know about it, or do you ever need to tell them about it.

Even if someday this type of cryptocurrency is somehow taxed and people willingly agree to give the government a cut will they ever get anything from it. And by then, another form of currency will have been developed and will already be in use. This is paving the way to get government out of the financial system, no matter what government it would be.

If it's not Bitcoin, people will use whatever they have of value for currency (have you seen the prices for primers lately?)


DXing wrote:Already there have been grumblings about regulatory action in a number of countries so while its future may someday be bright, right now it's still as volatile as a WW1 munition found in a French farmers field.

Oh, the government can TRY to regulate it, just like they try to regulate everything else. If they can't keep drugs off the streets, my question is how can they possibly control something which doesn't actually exist in worldly form?

DXing wrote:The broker I was dealing with back then talked me out of it saying it was a flash in the pan and I'd just be throwing my money away. Given what I was willing to invest at the time, I would be worth over a $100 million at todays prices. Needless to say I didn't invest, and that broker and I have since parted ways.

Yeah, they were all saying that back then. That's the reason I started Page 2 of this thread with "Who's laughing now?" Some of us realized early on it wasn't going away. But seriously, it's not too late. I am still buying positions in the dips and selling on the peaks, and it's easier than ever to buy, even as little as $1 worth.

That volatility is what makes it an excellent investment. You just have to know when to buy, and more importantly, when to sell! Long-term, you can't argue with it's increase in value, and every time an entity pumps a $billion or two into it, it becomes that much more stable!
It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 10 Feb 21, 16:57Post
Queso is spot on. While governments, and especially the USA, have been alleging that BTC is fuel for domestic Terry Wrists, that is really secondary to the massive institutional legitimation crisis facing the United States, and more broadly, the West. This effectively makes BTC more valuable. Russell Okung and others are going crypto heavy, and I think that they're correct to do so.

We are in for a more totalitarian future, and especially for us younger people, forming cities within cities and cultures within cultures is going to be incredibly important. This includes raising our kids, having our own land, and knowing how to defend it while remaining relatively unscathed, etc.
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 30 Mar 21, 16:07Post
And so it begins. I think it won't be more than a few years until U.S. Dollars (and other fiat currency) will only be an "alternate" form of currency, only something you might use in face-to-face transactions when you have no access to your main cryptocurrency.

Oh yeah, and paying your taxes. {frown} Because your {twocents} is worth less every day.

Customers who hold bitcoin, ether, bitcoin cash and litecoin in PayPal digital wallets will now be able to convert their holdings into fiat currencies at checkouts to make purchases, the company said.

The service, which PayPal revealed it was working on late last year, will be available at all of its 29 million merchants in the coming months, the company said.

“This is the first time you can seamlessly use cryptocurrencies in the same way as a credit card or a debit card inside your PayPal wallet,” President and CEO Dan Schulman told Reuters ahead of a formal announcement.


https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2LR0OD
It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
DXing 31 Mar 21, 01:01Post
Queso wrote: Ever traded (bartered) for anything? Did you tell the government about that transaction, or give them their "cut" of it? ;)


No, but then those transactions were so small as to be less than required to report.

Queso wrote: If they can't keep drugs off the streets, my question is how can they possibly control something which doesn't actually exist in worldly form?


While they can't keep the drugs off the streets, the money that drug dealers make has to be constantly laundered to avoid taxation, or moved out of the country to be of any use without attracting unwanted attention. So if or when you sell your bitcoin and convert it into currency, that's income, it's traceable, and thus taxable. Unless you can live entirely by using bitcoin as your choice of currency, at least for the time being, it's the only way to avoid a tax on the gains, unless you are good at money laundering.

Queso wrote:Even if someday this type of cryptocurrency is somehow taxed and people willingly agree to give the government a cut will they ever get anything from it. And by then, another form of currency will have been developed and will already be in use. This is paving the way to get government out of the financial system, no matter what government it would be.


As long as the nation state has the power to enact laws, including taxation, those can be use to take a portion of income.

Queso wrote: Long-term, you can't argue with it's increase in value, and every time an entity pumps a $billion or two into it, it becomes that much more stable!


Only have to go back as far as 2008 to say that no financial industry or tool is beyond collapse.

“This is the first time you can seamlessly use cryptocurrencies in the same way as a credit card or a debit card inside your PayPal wallet,” President and CEO Dan Schulman told Reuters ahead of a formal announcement.


Which leaves a paper trail that the government can subpoena and use to levy a tax on. Remember when Amazon and other internet purchases weren't subject to State sales taxes? How true is that today?
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 01 Apr 21, 19:32Post
DXing wrote:
Queso wrote: Ever traded (bartered) for anything? Did you tell the government about that transaction, or give them their "cut" of it? ;)


No, but then those transactions were so small as to be less than required to report.


So at what size transaction do you think the government should have their nose in your personal business and take a cut of it? $100? $1,000? The price of a car? The price of a house? Only for a business? Only for a business the size of GE? What about a kids' allowance, should the government get a cut of that?


DXing wrote:
Queso wrote: If they can't keep drugs off the streets, my question is how can they possibly control something which doesn't actually exist in worldly form?


While they can't keep the drugs off the streets, the money that drug dealers make has to be constantly laundered to avoid taxation, or moved out of the country to be of any use without attracting unwanted attention. So if or when you sell your bitcoin and convert it into currency, that's income, it's traceable, and thus taxable. Unless you can live entirely by using bitcoin as your choice of currency, at least for the time being, it's the only way to avoid a tax on the gains, unless you are good at money laundering.


Emphasis mine, that's the whole point. At a time in the foreseeable future. barring a major planetary conflict that would completely change our use of technology, I believe the use of physical currency will become exceedingly rare. We're already at the point where only a small minority of people actually ever see all the currency they own, with direct deposit, the use of debit cards, online bill pay with your checking account, online loan processing, etc. it's now a rare thing for a person to do all their transactions in cash.


DXing wrote:
Queso wrote:Even if someday this type of cryptocurrency is somehow taxed and people willingly agree to give the government a cut will they ever get anything from it. And by then, another form of currency will have been developed and will already be in use. This is paving the way to get government out of the financial system, no matter what government it would be.


As long as the nation state has the power to enact laws, including taxation, those can be use to take a portion of income.


How? ONLY by the consent and will of the people can the government get a cut of something they don't own and don't have a way of controlling. If I give you something of value directly, the only way the government will know about it or receive a cut is if I decide to let them know and give them some. If I am my own bank, they don't have to know anything about it.


DXing wrote:
Queso wrote: Long-term, you can't argue with it's increase in value, and every time an entity pumps a $billion or two into it, it becomes that much more stable!


Only have to go back as far as 2008 to say that no financial industry or tool is beyond collapse.


Define "collapse". Yes, cryptocurrency is subject to market forces, as is anything of value, and Bitcoin had a fall in it's value as recently as 2017. But as I said, the more valuable it becomes, the more it is used, the more stable it becomes. That's simply Newton's 1st law, and it's as applicable to currency as it is to physics.


DXing wrote:
“This is the first time you can seamlessly use cryptocurrencies in the same way as a credit card or a debit card inside your PayPal wallet,” President and CEO Dan Schulman told Reuters ahead of a formal announcement.


Which leaves a paper trail that the government can subpoena and use to levy a tax on. Remember when Amazon and other internet purchases weren't subject to State sales taxes? How true is that today?

Well, first of all, the quote only applied to intermediary exchanges which exchange one form of currency for another, like PayPal. If we both have our own Bitcoin addresses, that transaction remains anonymous.

Second, respectfully, that point has no validity to this subject. Yes, when using US Dollars, companies have to tax their transactions because they are auditable by the government because they are using government banks and government currency. If it's a completely private transaction, directly between Amazon and me, "taxes" at that point become voluntary.
It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
DXing 02 Apr 21, 00:44Post
Queso wrote:So at what size transaction do you think the government should have their nose in your personal business and take a cut of it?


What I think doesn't really matter. I have just one vote. In reality that doesn't even matter. If the guy I vote for decides to vote to enact a tax, not much I can do to stop it until the next election.

Queso wrote: it's now a rare thing for a person to do all their transactions in cash.


Which if you could do all your business in cash you could probably more effectively hide your transactions from the government, at least for a while. But then you end up like the drug dealers of old. How many high end cars can you have? You can't license them because that leaves a trail. Real estate? Same problem. All you could really do is bury the cash in your backyard like some of them did. If you screw up just once, the government gets a whiff, and that's the end of that fantasy. But bitcoin, since it is conducted online, leaves a digital footprint and the government is never going to allow it to completely supplant actual currency transactions for record, be it actual cash, or digital transaction. At some point they will require even bitcoin transactions to be recorded.

Example, it took them almost 10 years to realize that electric cars don't pay any fuel taxes. In just the past year the State I live in has increased the registration fees on electric cars to 4X an internal combustion engine. The feds have picked up on this and it won't be long before you'll be paying by the mile. Bet on that.

Queso wrote:How? ONLY by the consent and will of the people can the government get a cut of something they don't own and don't have a way of controlling. If I give you something of value directly, the only way the government will know about it or receive a cut is if I decide to let them know and give them some. If I am my own bank, they don't have to know anything about it.


And all they have to do is pass a law. How are you going to stop that? If the law is passed and you don't report your income or transaction, are you ready to go to jail or pay a fine?

Queso wrote:Define "collapse".


Do I really need to do that? All it takes is for the government(s) to start leaning on the currency for their cut (taxes), or severely regulating it and those same investors will take their profits and run. That would be Newton's second law of motion at work.

Queso wrote:Well, first of all, the quote only applied to intermediary exchanges which exchange one form of currency for another, like PayPal. If we both have our own Bitcoin addresses, that transaction remains anonymous.


Right up to the point that the nation state, or State for that matter, requires PayPal to document and report the transaction, same as the Amazon scenario. The taxes are not voluntary and the nation state, or State can, by law, require you and the other party to disclose any and all transactions. That, unfortunately, is the governments right. I dont' necessarily agree with it but that doesn't really matter. I either obey the law, or risk jail or monetary loss in the form of a fine.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 13 Apr 21, 16:10Post
December 17, not quite 4 months ago (scroll up)...
Bitcoin was at $23,572.

Bitcoin right now...
Bitcoin 0413.JPG
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Nearly triple in less than 4 months.
It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
Queso (netAirspace ATC Tower Chief & Founding Member) 13 Apr 21, 18:50Post
Bitcoin will soon eclipse silver's market cap. It will eventually overtake gold, probably in the not-so-distant future.

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It's official- I'm staying where I'm at.
Lucas (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 13 Apr 21, 19:53Post
For people here that want to learn more about Bitcoin beyond the boomercon/neoliberal thoughts on it (ie, what one gets from the corporate media; I'm not ref'ing Queso), you might enjoy this discussion which clocks in around 30 minutes:


The Tom Woods Show: The great Saifedean Ammous joins us to discuss current trends in Bitcoin, whether it’s in a “bubble,” what its advantages are, what the future may hold, and why all of this should matter to libertarians.
 

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