You are at netAirspace : Forum : Air and Space Forums : Civil Aviation

Long Haul A319 Flights

All about Airlines and Airliners.
 

ANCFlyer (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 18 Aug 21, 10:40Post
https://simpleflying.com/longest-airbus ... 1629210197

Note the author of the article.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!!
miamiair (netAirspace FAA) 18 Aug 21, 10:53Post
Did MAD-TLV in a 319. 2,207 NM.

Trip Report
And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight. — E. B. Jeppesen
DXing 18 Aug 21, 12:51Post
Note that most of the AA flights are north/south routes so wind doesn't really play a factor. I'd be interested to see how many of the east/west routes have problems in their respective hemispheres flying against winter winds. I'm sure the UA flight EWR to PDX has to stop or restrict seats every once in a while.

If not a tech stop or seat restriction for the winds, then the odd weather pattern that allows unallowable ozone levels to drop into the low fl300 levels. These aircraft don't have scrubbers so consequently have to fly farther south or drop below the ozone level causing a higher fuel burn.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 18 Aug 21, 13:04Post
DXing wrote:If not a tech stop or seat restriction for the winds, then the odd weather pattern that allows unallowable ozone levels to drop into the low fl300 levels. These aircraft don't have scrubbers so consequently have to fly farther south or drop below the ozone level causing a higher fuel burn.

Now there's something I've never heard about. Tell us more!
My friend and I applied for airline jobs in Australia, but they didn't Qantas.
DXing 18 Aug 21, 17:17Post
As we used to say in dispatch, there's an FAR for that....

§ 121.578 Cabin ozone concentration.
(a) For the purpose of this section, the following definitions apply:

(1) Flight segment means scheduled nonstop flight time between two airports.

(2) Sea level equivalent refers to conditions of 25 °C and 760 millimeters of mercury pressure.

(b) Except as provided in paragraphs (d) and (e) of this section, no certificate holder may operate an airplane above the following flight levels unless it is successfully demonstrated to the Administrator that the concentration of ozone inside the cabin will not exceed -

(1) For flight above flight level 320, 0.25 parts per million by volume, sea level equivalent, at any time above that flight level; and

(2) For flight above flight level 270, 0.1 parts per million by volume, sea level equivalent, time-weighted average for each flight segment that exceeds 4 hours and includes flight above that flight level. (For this purpose, the amount of ozone below flight level 180 is considered to be zero.)

(c) Compliance with this section must be shown by analysis or tests, based on either airplane operational procedures and performance limitations or the certificate holder's operations. The analysis or tests must show either of the following:

(1) Atmospheric ozone statistics indicate, with a statistical confidence of at least 84%, that at the altitudes and locations at which the airplane will be operated cabin ozone concentrations will not exceed the limits prescribed by paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) The airplane ventilation system including any ozone control equipment, will maintain cabin ozone concentrations at or below the limits prescribed by paragraph (b) of this section.

(d) A certificate holder may obtain an authorization to deviate from the requirements of paragraph (b) of this section, by an amendment to its operations specifications, if -

(1) It shows that due to circumstances beyond its control or to unreasonable economic burden it cannot comply for a specified period of time; and

(2) It has submitted a plan acceptable to the Administrator to effect compliance to the extent possible.

(e) A certificate holder need not comply with the requirements of paragraph (b) of this section for an aircraft -

(1) When the only persons carried are flight crewmembers and persons listed in § 121.583;

(2) If the aircraft is scheduled for retirement before January 1, 1985; or

(3) If the aircraft is scheduled for re-engining under the provisions of subpart E of part 91, until it is re-engined.

[Doc. No. 121-154, 45 FR 3883, Jan. 21, 1980. Redesignated by Amdt. 121-162, 45 FR 46739, July 10, 1980, and amended by Amdt. 121-181, 47 FR 58489, Dec. 30, 1982; Amdt. 121-251, 60 FR 65935, Dec. 20, 1995]


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.578

It's almost exclusively associated with colder than normal air masses and low tropopause heights so not a problem 3 seasons out of the year. I looked to see if there was a map of the southern hemisphere that would show a concentration but I don't see any upper air temps that would be so cold, or tropopause heights so low as to allow the ozone layer to dip into the 30-40 thousand foot range. It almost has to be what has become known as a "polar vortex" over the lower 48 of the United States to affect domestic traffic. The last few years I was dispatching it was more common than the first few years. The farthest south I remember seeing it on a map where it had to be avoided was the Ohio river on the Illinois Indiana State line down to about FL340. That was during a really cold winter around 2014-2015. But there were plenty of times spots over the northern border states had areas to be avoided.

I can't speak to all airlines but generally narrow bodies of all types, up to 757's do not have ozone scrubbers since the problem isn't encountered often enough to make them worthwhile. Wide bodies do as they are generally capable of flying more northerly and polar routes where you can expect to find large dips of ozone all winter long.
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
ShanwickOceanic (netAirspace FAA) 18 Aug 21, 20:01Post
That's fascinating stuff, thank you {thumbsup}
My friend and I applied for airline jobs in Australia, but they didn't Qantas.
DXing 19 Aug 21, 02:57Post
I found this report. Technical but understandable. The only thing they are missing is the temperature gradient involved. It always seemed, to me anyway, to be associated with colder than normal air.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/8/1/014006
What's the point of an open door policy if inside the open door sits a closed mind?
JLAmber (netAirspace ATC & Founding Member) 19 Aug 21, 12:18Post
ANCFlyer wrote:https://simpleflying.com/longest-airbus-a319-routes/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=echo&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0kkRIIGAYyCiZovroVZUYbJdIy2UVeV61lyZ8tvyuY1JAusYRJIJD8HgM#Echobox=1629210197

Note the author of the article.


James has really developed Simple Flying into a far more engaging publication. It's amazing what you can do with coffee shop wifi, a bit of insider knowledge and a writing style that's very much Noel's youtube style put to print.

JetBlue were talking about sending A319neo on TATL routes but I suspect the order may have been changed to A320neo for the same reason as the old high density A319 orders not exactly working out.
A million great ideas...
 

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

LEFT

RIGHT
CONTENT